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I gave you a 5 for your comment...
I agree for the largest part of your comment, but still there are a few things I need to get off my chest:
johannesnestler wrote: Why to you think that apple as a company is more proper than any other global player?
I do not think they are the "better global player". For me every company is the same, they have a target to hit and they will kill/destroy every person/company that stands in there way. Every business is crewl and hard. I learned to live with it.
But I still have the most respect for Apple, they don't have a primary focus on software (look at the MacBook (Pro), IPhone, EMac, ...) and they beat MS on there own turf, almost a new release every year, a superior look and feel, a consistent look and feel, software that doesn't crash every five steps, etc.
johannesnestler wrote: Because the products look so hip?
Yes, the products of Apple do look better, because the users of Macs do not accept crappy interfaces that most MS developers create. If a Mac-user sees an ugly interface that software won't thrive, it will become extinct or at least never used and taking up internet/hard drive space.
johannesnestler wrote: Most Programmers are smart, freaky (sometimes subversive), and creative people, working with systems from ruthless, greedy and
shifty companies, solving problems for clueless customers?
Haleluia to that, but the customer is not the dumbo here, it is the MS programmer that isn't able to create a decent interface.
johannesnestler wrote: Yes, I also love the code!
It is the best expression I could think of for a forum signature, I should change it into: "I only love the decent designed code." 
Don't you also love the code?
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...the products of Apple do look better, because the users of Macs do not accept crappy interfaces that most MS developers create...
I think your are right here. Most Mac users I know are not programmers, they are often People doing art (Desing, Musik, Graphic) and have a good feeling for a nice look. And no dubt apple products look cool.
But most of the them were not "invented" by Apple. iPhone looks cool, but the GUI is the nice thing, it was made by a famous design company. Apple computers have better hardware? No - they are only a vendor like others (Dell, HP...).
almost a new release every year....
http://www.macworld.com/article/14568/2000/09/buzzwindingroad.html[^]
But let's stop this boring dispute. You love your apple products? - thats fine! From your sayings I assume you are one of the "good", you would probably also do "decent designed code" on MS platforms ![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
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Paul Watson wrote: Gave you a 1 for a being a blind fan-boy
Which would also describe 99% of the people on CP. 
Paul Watson wrote: Windows still dominates and Mac OS X doesn't help desktop developers develop Windows apps.
Yes it does, just like I can build Mac Apps on my Windows box. Oh sure, platform specific technologies can't be used, but the cross-platform frameworks can. Also, the question didn't say Windows apps, it just said apps.
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I haven't used a cross platform desktop development system that works as it should. What do you use?
regards,
Paul Watson
Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote: At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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Paul Watson wrote: I haven't used a cross platform desktop development system that works as it should. What do you use?
Well, I'm not sure what "as it should" entails, but I've used wxWidgets[^] before, and I've been happy with it. I mean, there are a few OS specifics in it, but by and large you can do a lot while being in either environment.
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Cool, sounds good. Any well known apps. using it?
regards,
Paul Watson
Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote: At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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Paul Watson wrote: Any well known apps. using it?
Good question. The only one I'm aware of is Audacity. There may be more; I just never researched it TBH. I like wxWidgets better than Qt because if you do closed sourced, it's still free. Can't beat that.  And sizers are really nice for dialog layout.
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Cool, Audacity is pretty good. Hopefully more folk use wxWidgets if that is what it can produce. I'm really sick of cross-platform apps that use standard Java UI.
regards,
Paul Watson
Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote: At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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Paul Watson wrote: I'm really sick of cross-platform apps that use standard Java UI.
Amen to that. The sad thing is, Java is a nice language in itself. But, its implementation, is just... well you get the idea.
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Lol, you haven't used a cross platform before?
I am sure you have!
The following are "Cross platform":
dotNet (MS says it is, mostly, I say it is a marketing scam)
Java (Sun has proven itself to be cross platform, Write once, run(debug) everywhere)
Trixul (Still in development, has potential, see SourceForge)
...
But if you really want to be Cross Platform, just use Qt.
Don't you also love the code?
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Filip van der Meeren wrote: dotNet (MS says it is, mostly, I say it is a marketing scam)
Yeah, exactly.
Filip van der Meeren wrote: Java (Sun has proven itself to be cross platform, Write once, run(debug) everywhere)
I've never used a Java app that feels like a native app and that is still cross-platform. They are slow and clunky. I would never subject my users to a Java desktop app.
Filip van der Meeren wrote: Trixul (Still in development, has potential, see SourceForge)
Never heard of it.
regards,
Paul Watson
Ireland & South Africa
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote: At least he achieved immortality for a few years.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Paul Watson wrote:
Gave you a 1 for a being a blind fan-boy
Which would also describe 99% of the people on CP.
I completely agree... It is a bit like I said, you are all sheep following the horde. And MS is the sheepdog and is growling to stay in line. (Apple is worse  have you noticed how much Steve Jobs likes to be in full control? The IPhone SDK is the perfect example...)
Don't you also love the code?
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Filip van der Meeren wrote: have you noticed how much Steve Jobs likes to be in full control?
It's because he's losing his hair.
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I think it's not that difficult to save the last OS of members of CP with which they logged in, then use a query to find out how many users are using what.
It's even possible to have a live OS & Browser graph.
Just kidding 
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni
while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
}
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Sure, it wouldn't be that difficult to compile o/s statistics this way. But what would it really tell you? I think it might only be accurate for telling you what o/s platform CP users were utilizing to browse to CP.
At my previous job I did most of my development on a Linux machine but only browsed the internet on a Windows machine. Perhaps this situation is too minor to worry about...
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geoffs wrote: But what would it really tell you?
What does this survey tell us? How many people use XP and select Vista or Linux? We don't know. Maybe no one, maybe someone. How many people use an OS, to come to CP today and use another tomorrow? I don't know. How accurate these statistics are? How accurate statistics generally are?
Well it was just a rant. Sharing an idea that came into my mind, without even thinking about it. The reason: I like statistics anyway.
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni
while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
}
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Your thought was a good thought. It just came to my mind that doing so might not be as good an indicator as one may think.
Chris already has such statistics available to him. The web server should be keeping a log of the o/s the browser to this site is running atop (in addition to a variety of other information such as browser flavor, etc).
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geoffs wrote: might not be as good an indicator as one may think.
You're probably right. Not for inaccuracy but because popularity of an OS is more interesting to OS vendors than developers I guess, at least in a long term. What makes me, for one, interested to the results of this survey is the release of new version of some OS's and the battle between them.
geoffs wrote: Chris already has such statistics available to him
I didn't know that. Maybe that's why he started this poll: "he knew the results"
Some people believe smart people don't ask a question unless when they know the answer in advanced. Maybe Chris is too smart
// "In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni
while (I_am_alive)
{
cout<<"I love to do more than just programming.";
}
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Personal firewalls and Proxy Servers might strip out or change browser system and user Agent information for security reasons.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson
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Hamed Mosavi wrote: I think it's not that difficult to save the last OS of members of CP with which they logged in, then use a query to find out how many users are using what.
Noooooo!!!!!! Then people would find out I'm using Vista right now. I have a reputation to maintain. 
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My current development environment is on Windows XP. However, my target clients have thier servers setup on Windows Server 2003 and a few still on Windows 2000 Servers.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar
Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
A pessimist sees only the dark side of the clouds, and mopes; a philosopher sees both sides, and shrugs; an optimist doesn't see the clouds at all - he's walking on them. --Leonard Louis Levinson
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