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Tim Stubbs wrote:
a single platform language as opposed to JAVA which is much the same thing and cross platform.
I wont say that especially after successful release of mono. However C# certainly does ape JAVA but that's what it was meant for!
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also, C# could be multi-platform if Microsoft or someone else would take the time to write a .net platform based on the windows .net framerwork on an OS like Mac or Linux!!! it should work then!
IM PROUD TO BE A GMAIL;
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If we speak of MFC as an interface, then yes, it should be ported.
How much bigger has Microsoft gotten since it originally published MFC ?
A big company like this should come up with decent interfaces that can pass the test of time.
Now, the implementation is mostly a bunch of thin wrappers on top of a WIN32 api. I can still remember the transition from Borland 4.5 to MSVC 5.0. (Borland had a much better library, as far as I was concerned).
So, CString should be portable, so should CWnd and CDialog and CWaitCursor and (...) the list goes on, even if its just to proove that Microsoft can not only come up with libraries, but also come up with libraries worth using.
Otherwise, who is to say that 5-10 years from now we will not have to change again from "dot net" to "whatever other buzzword they come up with" ?
Yes, we need another library: dot net.
Yes, we need some effort from Microsoft to port their own mess to the new generation.
Or at least make a decent attempt, documenting difficulties, leaving to the comunity such as this very web side the task of complementing their effort.
That's my own opinion, anyway.
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Instead of porting it, why not just make *IT* the interface then if it's that great?
Also, just because something is made by so and so doesn't make it right, wrong or the best to use. Companies have dead lines and interfaces are again made by people. It doesn't mean that these interfaces are greatest thing since sliced bread and it doesn't mean that they aren't. Don't take anything at face value and question everything. "Could this be done better?" "What do I like and dislike about this?" You also have to remember the audience. To make a single interface usable in the most flexible of environments to suit EVERYONE'S NEEDS is very broad. Some people need more flexibility and others (the stupider people who work on basically simple projects) need less and want to do less, they are usually just IT guys anyway.
The hard core programmers though skip all this crap and use the direct interfaces
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is the App Wizard. With a couple of clicks, you can get a fully formed Windows skeleton application with a nice doc/view architecture. Menus, toolbars and status bars ready to be customised.
A few decent "app wizards" ported to .NET and C# would be nice.
Michael
CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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True, that. It's a little harder to get those one-off proggies looking professional with the .NET wizards.
I'm actually a bit suprised by that, having intially figured that custom wizards would have flooded CP by now... guess it's more of a personal thing.
Medication for us all
You think you know me, well you're wrong
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Yeah, I haven't load VS 2005 yet, does anybody now if there are any cool wizard for C# apps?
My Blog ^
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Shog9 wrote:
I'm actually a bit suprised by that, having intially figured that custom wizards would have flooded CP by now... guess it's more of a personal thing.
I think we'd see more, if wizard building for Visual Studio wasn't such a black-art
Michael
CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Heh... there's probably a joke to be had here, something about replacing wizards with sorcerers... but yeah. It should be easier.
Medication for us all
You think you know me, well you're wrong
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Shog9 wrote:
Heh... there's probably a joke to be had here, something about replacing wizards with sorcerers... but yeah. It should be easier.
Back in the dark ages. A couple of us built a wizard to generate some code (DB wrappers I think - can't remember). Anyway the other engineer was a big Terry Pratchett / Discworld[^] fan. So he named the wizard 'Rincewind[^]' after the inept wizard of the Discworld stories. 
Michael
CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Excellent.
Loading DB Wrapper Wizzard...
File is read-only! ohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshitohshit
Medication for us all
You think you know me, well you're wrong
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Ummm...I can do the same in about 30 seconds in c# if it made any sense to do so.
I wouldn't want to inflict Doc/View on anyone though, how many times, in how many apps does it truly fit the task at hand? Sure if you're editing documents in an app, but really, how often is that in the big scheme of things?
I always thought it was a bit of a silly design that was parroted by too many developers not really taking the time to consider the task at hand when they developed their app. So many apps were shoe-horned into that style of thinking when it really didn't apply to them at all.
I much prefer the blank slate approach that you can turn into anything you want, although all our business apps are starting to look a lot like Outlook.
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office."
- Ambrose Bierce
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Yeah doc/view was mostly useless - but i don't think most developers stuck to it in any great sense (certainly true for myself for the past 10 years or so).
However, he does have a point, the wizards (and the rest of IDE) needs a lot of work yet...
Tim Stubbs
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John Cardinal wrote:
I wouldn't want to inflict Doc/View on anyone though, how many times, in how many apps does it truly fit the task at hand? Sure if you're editing documents in an app, but really, how often is that in the big scheme of things?
I love the Doc/View architecture, although I mainly used it with FormView. It suited my development needs very well. And helped to seperate the UI code from the data which was a great help in writing lots of data-entry forms.
John Cardinal wrote:
I much prefer the blank slate approach that you can turn into anything you want, although all our business apps are starting to look a lot like Outlook.
As all my apps have a similar feel to them, I prefer for the boilerplate to be generated by a wizard rather than having to cut and paste apps together. I build a few more wizards if the Visual Studio wizard-addin code didn't rely on a large proportion of black-magic 
Michael
CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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App Wizard? People actually use that crap? Why not just skip programming all together? It seems that people like to be removed from programming as much as possible, if that's the case why not just quit programming and become a manager?
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Hey the pay's probably better... Actually i've heard this kind of thing before - remember classwizard? Yes it was horrible but it did shorten the odd task. I hate doing everything by hand when i've done it a million times before.. I spend a good deal of time setting up the IDE with macros and plugins to automate many aspects of programming. Perhaps that makes me less of 'hard core' programmer but i do understand all the code that's been added, and can edit it at will so i see no harm in it..
Tim Stubbs
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Anonymous wrote:
It seems that people like to be removed from programming as much as possible, if that's the case why not just quit programming and become a manager?
Using AppWizard to build a framework windows application is a great time saver. Giving the developer a chance to concentrate on the core product rather than all the boilerplate code that is needed for a modern windows application.
Of course, any MFC developer worth his salt knows how to create an MFC application from scratch and understands the mechanics beneath the AppWizard generated code. Heck, some of us started using MFC before the AppWizard came along and had to build everything from scratch.
If the tool is there, you might as well use it.
Michael
CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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I think that all the smart programmers want to get to the nice caramel core as soon as possible instead of chewing on the more cut and dried part on the outside 
I also got the blogging virus..[^]
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i dont really see how having a wizard can make it all that better.
.net is by default a very easy platform to develop on.
guis are really just drag and drop if
in the same steps it takes to create an app in mfc with the wizard you could have created a new windows form app, drag and drop a taskbar, menubar, toolbar, etc etc onto it
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with a few clicks in vs.net 2003 or 2005 you could get a fully customized app with almost no code at all, if any!! also .net apps are so easy to manage compared to c++ windows apps!! thats why i switched to using C# for my windows applications(desktop), but I still use C++ HEAVILY since I like using C++ to make games, C# just looks bad with dx in my opinion.
IM PROUD TO BE A GMAIL;
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This question must be facetious, who in their right mind would want to see MFC rear it's ugly head again?
I used it for many years and I can only imagine the people most devoted to it are the ones who have a job that depends on their arcane knowledge of something so overly convoluted and complex.
It's time to move on people, let it die.
"In our civilization, and under our republican form of government, intelligence is so highly honored that it is rewarded by exemption from the cares of office."
- Ambrose Bierce
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It's certainly no question of devotion on my part, it's just that 10-15 years of development at my company were based on that and Win32 which equals extreme danger in shifting to a new framework for mission critical apps (in other words, the apps that pay for my sports car!).
Now, we do have a new application that's all .NET here but we have to strap the guy who did it down before he's allowed to talk about the forms designer..
Tim Stubbs
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its funny i happen to be one of those dot not guys surrounding by a bunch of well not really mfc but rather cobol and hardcore g00r00 vbscript jockies.
they fear the framework from what i gather..
change? money? survival of the fitest? who knows .. either way i think we can all agree that .net does have its advantages over its ancestors...
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