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GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:35
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:35 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 2:55
trønderen18-Dec-23 2:55 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:56
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:56 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:03
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:03 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
jschell18-Dec-23 7:04
jschell18-Dec-23 7:04 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
jschell18-Dec-23 7:17
jschell18-Dec-23 7:17 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 9:36
trønderen18-Dec-23 9:36 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
jschell19-Dec-23 4:49
jschell19-Dec-23 4:49 
trønderen wrote:
"Outside the universe" relates it to the universe, which has its own definition which precludes anything "outside".


Good try, but no.

Again humans are hypocrites. They can believe contradictory things.

And the definition of the universe it wrapped up in science. Science itself is a specific system which is always based on beliefs (for example that one can measure something multiple times and get the same result.)

trønderen wrote:
because time itself started at BB. There cannot be any "before BB"


Which is something that I myself stated in another thread. But that requires that one only and exclusively believes in science. But by doing that you are, by definition, denying the possibility of God. You are certainly not proving it.

You cannot prove science. You can only accept it and believe in it.

trønderen wrote:
To make it easier to grasp:


Sorry but no I do not need you to explain the concept to me. I already understand it and even referred to exactly that recently in another thread.

trønderen wrote:
They make no sense in the "standard model"


What you seem to be failing to understand is that very concept is one that belongs to science.

Science is not logic. Science is not Christianity (or all of the other deity/spiritual variants.)

Logically (not scientifically) if I start with the standard general definition of God then I can make any claim that I want.

For example I can state that the entire universe was created yesterday. Every atom, sub-atomic particle, their position and speed exactly specified. Pulsars, stars, my mind and yours all created yesterday.

Logically you can refute that in a number of ways
- The assumption of God is invalid or the attributes are wrong.
- It was not created yesterday but instead 6,000 or 14 billion years ago.
- God didn't create it but rather something else did and it happened last week.
- You could claim you only speak spanish or klingon and thus we cannot communicate.

But you cannot prove it wrong. Not with science and not with logic.
And you cannot prove it right either.

You can however believe that you can do so.
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen19-Dec-23 13:59
trønderen19-Dec-23 13:59 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
jschell20-Dec-23 5:40
jschell20-Dec-23 5:40 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 9:58
trønderen18-Dec-23 9:58 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 10:16
trønderen18-Dec-23 10:16 
JokeRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Daniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:38
professionalDaniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:38 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Daniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:22
professionalDaniel Pfeffer16-Dec-23 22:22 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon17-Dec-23 2:48
professionalJeremy Falcon17-Dec-23 2:48 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen17-Dec-23 7:37
trønderen17-Dec-23 7:37 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:43
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 2:43 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:00
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:00 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 3:03
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 3:03 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:59
trønderen18-Dec-23 3:59 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 4:00
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 4:00 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 4:18
trønderen18-Dec-23 4:18 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Jeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 4:19
professionalJeremy Falcon18-Dec-23 4:19 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
trønderen18-Dec-23 4:23
trønderen18-Dec-23 4:23 
GeneralRe: I'm only 12.5% sure that God exists... Pin
Steve Raw15-Dec-23 5:29
professionalSteve Raw15-Dec-23 5:29 

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