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I shall not rise to that! 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I live in Italy, a country full of artistic works. If it is true that an artist creates something beautiful or functional from scratch, can the same definition be used for a programmer?
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Depends on the programmer.
I've know a few who can't create anything beautiful or functional, but who somehow manage to hold down a job ... 
Come to that, not all art is "beautiful or functional" either: Damon Hurst springs to mind, as does Tracy Emin. Then there is Goya - "Saturn Devouring One of His Sons" is not something you'd want to wake up to ... the list goes on.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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But it is also true that beauty can be found even in ugliness, it depends on who looks at it 
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Yeah, I've come across my fair share of developers, who you might consider to be artists - if you think abstract squiggles are art! And in amongst those squiggles, are some lovely, (artistic?) booby-traps, that the rest of us have to watch out for.
In my experience, the developers with genuine practical abilities are the ones that develop code I would be most happy to pick up. I would take someone who can build a house over someone with a degree in Art, every time.
Good developers are artisans, not artists.
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5teveH wrote: Good developers are artisans, not artists.
Perfect wording, I will remember it.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Even a artisan is an artist, not known in the world, but known in his "little" country world 
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This is inspiring me to start a related thread.
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took the words right out of my mouth. I think early on in their career, every developer needs to be assigned to a maintenance project. They get a bonus if they stick it out. It will make every piece of their future code scarred with the sins of the past.
You analogy - the bad developers take a perfectly good landscape and sling red paint on it. Some of the most "artistic" developers I've worked with cannot comprehend the results of their "red paint."
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Some of the most "artistic" developers I've worked with cannot comprehend the results of their "red paint."
Yep! Nailed it. 
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I concur, good developers are artisans.
Reading well formatted logical code, with adequate, not overlong,
identifiers, producing something that reads almost like natural language,
is a bit like admiring a skilled weaver's fabric. 
Cheers
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This would be my preference as well!
I know, I know - a bad workman blames his tools - but given half decent graphics editing tools I'm not incompetent at graphics stuff. This editor though ... it's a PITA.
Bob is now up to two arms and one hand, but that took me an hour and my eyes are bleeding again.
* I use Corel Paintshop Pro and have for decades now, back when it was still the "Yet Another Software Company" product. It's pretty damn good and gets better when you learn how to fly it (even if it is a Corel product: company motto: "Add bugs and complicate")
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Programmers are creative, at least the good ones. To be creative you need an artistic component, but you also need a lot of know-how and, in many of the fields we operate, science.
So I'd say either 50% art and 50% practical knowledge or 33% art, 33% practical knowledge and 33% science. The remaining 1% is for profanity.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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den2k88 wrote: The remaining 1% is for profanity.
Or craziness 
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Years ago I worked for a company that would only employ people with degrees as programmers. So we had programmers with degrees in history, geography, literature etc., who could not program their way through a door.
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Interesting publication. But one who wrote like me can also be considered an artist
10 CLS
20 Print "Your Name (N for exit)";: Input "",W$
30 if W$="N" goto 100
40 Print "Good morning"; W$
100 END
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I think you forgot:
50 GOTO 10
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You are in right
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Creatives certainly, not necessarily artists.
But mostly we fall into the "other professional thinking persons" category.
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In the past yes. But the industry has "evolved" to a point where everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done. It's not being an artist to let ChatGPT do everything for you. And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: everyone uses a library for everything, understands nothing, and Google's stack overflow to get their job done
I beg to differ. I can think of quite a few people, some of them even CPians, whom I would call artisans. They certainly do not write their code by stitching together bits and bobs from SO.
That is not to say that there aren't plenty of incompetent programmers out there, just as there are incompetent doctors, lawyers, etc. etc.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: I beg to differ.
You're being entirely too literal. If you read the next part after your quote, you'll see I also used to the word most. Which while, if I were being pedantic too, sounds contradictory. But, in your typical, every day, colloquial conversation peeps shouldn't be that literal with one solitary part of the entire post with a word like "everyone" when the entirety of the rest of the post "contradicts" that. Also, refer to the title of my post for the further context.
Daniel Pfeffer wrote: That is not to say that there aren't plenty of incompetent programmers out there, just as there are incompetent doctors, lawyers, etc. etc.
Which is my point Daniel. Context...
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: And, most coders are already doing that - just with stack overflow.
I have not really seen that. If for no other reason then I would expect some of them to do a better job if they were just pasting existing pieces together.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: to a point where everyone uses a library for everything
Nothing wrong with any practical endeavor to seek short cuts. For example pre-constructed housing even with custom designs are increasing. Manufactured wood is also being used more extensively. Absolutely no one that does any modern civil engineering does it on a an easel with pencils and paper. CRISPR allows one to create new biology and analyzing existing biological products can be done perhaps in minutes now versus years (decades) that it took before.
No doubt those new tools can be misused. Probably some that use them do not even understand what they are doing. And that could and probably does lead to problems. But ability to do much more complex projects makes it worth it.
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