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I don't blame them for that bacause gcc has done the same thing but I wish they would have had a compatibility mode (gcc does not have this feature either). The hardest part is the code that I did not write. Stuff from codeproject, or even codeguru. This time (I tried 2 years ago and gave up because it was too much of an effort) I am finding it a lot easier to port because a lot of the codeproject code has been updated but there still is a lot of work because I never just copy posted code I always edit and update...
John
-- modified at 11:33 Monday 30th January, 2006
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I would tend to agree. I think the issues faced with upgrading would depend largely on how 'wacked' your code was in the first place. If you adopted every ATL/Template/Whatsit that came out along the way, surely you will have problems. If you were writing fairly straightforward, clear C++ all along, then probably no changes required a tall. Consider this, you wrote allt hat stuf fin obscure ATL so it would be protable and reusable. So, now that a new standard is out .. blah blah blah .. how reuseable is it now and how much work is it to decipher that crap and get it back to something following a standard?
People that start writing code immediately are programmers (or hackers), people that ask questions first are Software Engineers - Graham Shanks
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If anyone is still interested... Apart from an runtime error in a sharedlib with resources not being found (hopefully I will solve that one today). I was able to port all 500K+ lines to VC.NET 2003 in about 2 weeks. Once I got through 2 dlls that contain a lot of code that I was not the primary author the porting was very easy. Here are a few details of how I did that: About 1 day of the time spent was modifying my build system to get my code to parallel build and install. In both systems I build from the shell using .bat commands and a very structured folder layout that grab needed dlls/libs, build the code, create an install .exe that contains source code, documentation along with release, debug and debugrelease targets. With the help of CVS I was able to setup sandboxes for each compiler and the only difference that was not committed into CVS was a single batch file in the batch folder for each target on VC.NET that set an environment variable that stated we were building for vc71.
John
John
-- modified at 11:13 Monday 6th February, 2006
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the main reason for me is a *nostalgic* reason 
well, actually, i still use VC++6 for the old projects i already designed with it, which i did not migrate for VC++ 2003 yet...
on a GUI user point of view, i love VC6, and thanks to Visual Assist, it became inseparable from me now. the only thing really missing is certainly some tabs that allow to switch between the open files...
for newer projects, i create them for VC++ 2003 for standard compliance, IDE ergonomy...
and for a financial reason (as i donnot use Visual C++ at work), i still don't have the money for Visual Studio Pro 2005... waiting for CP offers for that...
TOXCCT >>> GEII power
[toxcct][VisualCalc 2.20][VCalc 3.0 soon...]
-- modified at 12:01 Monday 30th January, 2006
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toxcct wrote: the only thing really missing is certainly some tabs that allow to switch between the open files...
You mean like WndTabs[^] ?
WndTabs makes VS.NET IDE looking like a child's toy. E.g. you can group .cpp and .h files on one tab to save the space. You can get CVS status of the file with CVS plugin etc...
<center> </center>
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George wrote: WndTabs makes VS.NET IDE looking like a child's toy.
Yes, it's a world class add-in. I wonder if Oz has any plans to apply a similar treatment to VS 2003/5? Perhaps it's too difficult or too much work?
Kevin
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yeah, i know WndTabs...
i talked about native tabs, with the look&feel of VC6 ide. i also tried another plugin like this one called VSBooster, but unfortunately, it was not free...
TOXCCT >>> GEII power
[toxcct][VisualCalc 2.20][VCalc 3.0 soon...]
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Nope, personal pref. VC 2003 is ok. The extra compile performance and language is nice, but I don't really need it* to get my job done at work (with the exception of integrating with some 3rd party API's). And at home I just can't justify spending $1000 for an IDE.
*oops - helps to use the correct grammar! 
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire!
Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0
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Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
-- modified at 20:37 Monday 30th January, 2006
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Jim Crafton wrote: And at home I just can't justify spending $1000 for an IDE.
This one[^] is free of charge.
My programming blahblahblah blog. If you ever find anything useful here, please let me know to remove it.
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Right, but it's CRT support is hobbled in such a way to make it useless for me. You can't create DLL's that link dynamically to the CRT.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire!
Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0
0 rows returned
Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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On the contrary - VS.NET is actually forced and I have the same feeling about VS.NET as about Lotus Notes: Just can't understand how can they get away with such useless and buggy piece of crap!? Both applications are pushed on by either bad managers (Lotus) or bad coders (VS.NET) who just don't know any better and fall for the propaganda...
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My guess would be that most of those who do, do it because they *have* to - for some reason.
Nope, quite the opposite.
Out of preference: Yes. VS6 IDE is streets ahead of VS 2002, 2003, 2005.
Because the company says so: Yes. VC6 is much more productive than 2002, 2003, 2005. Pointless having engineers fighting a tool that is needlessly awkward to use.
2002 was awful.
2003 was an improvement but still broken
2005 is getting close to being usable like VS6 but it still isn't there.
Frankly there is no excuse for having a great product like VS6 and then breaking it so badly that you dread using any of the versions that come afterwards. This is 5 years after .NET arrived and still no decent IDE?
None obvious UI usage:
o Broken keybindings. They should be the same as VS6 out of the box. The compatiblity mode is broken - it doesn't map things correctly.
o How to get the filename and path of a source file?
VS6. Properties.
VS7 and above, hover over the tab and wait. Good grief.
o How to set Project properties?
VS6. Choose Settings on the Project menu.
VS7 and above. Even though you are editing the project (that is implicit) you have to select the project and then choose an entry on a menu. That is brain dead. Just broken. Such poor design its unbelievable.
o No MFC GUI builder support, despite the fact there are millions of MFC project around the world that need to be supported, and if you are doing native C++ you'll want to use MFC (unless you are wxWidgets or Qt).
o and so on...
Its as if Symantec Cafe and Delphi poisoned the well. Just awful.
Read the microsoft newsgroups. This subject comes up time after time. There are plenty of VS6 users. Looking at the feedback notes at Software Verification I can see that VS6 is still used by a lot of people and that many people are forced to use the newer tools they dislike by management.
Its a shame as the debugger and compiler are meant to be better than the VS6 one, but productivity is where it is at. The VS6 IDE wins without even trying. If I have to fight the IDE to get my work done then something is wrong with the IDE.
Mind you, I recently had to use NetBeans and Eclipse. Ouch. Netbeans 4.1 was a step backwards from 4.0. How do people do that? Why break stuff that works?
Stephen Kellett
--
http://www.softwareverify.com
Tools for C++, Visual Basic, Delphi, Java, Python, Ruby, Lua, JavaScript
http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/rsi.html
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I've used many IDEs over the last couple of years - KDevelop, JBuilder, Netbeans, VS.NET studio. None come close to VC6.
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Agreed, I've used the same IDEs, the VC6 is a really great IDE.
I really prefer NB 4.0 to the newer versions, SUN kinda ruined it, hopefully they'll turn it around.
It is not a requirement to use VC6 at work but several hundred of us do along with C++ which is our corporate standard. The types of applications we have to maintain and create need to run and be debugged on old systems  and VC6 doesn't require much horse power at all.
I don't understand why people say that there aren't jobs using the older stuff  (even for the fact of migration/maintenance). There are probably billions of lines of code in running programs that are still in use today which are decades old (*nux/Mac/Windows). A lot of companies like mine, in the electronics manufacturing industry, look for that kind of skill (C++/MFC/STL). I guess you look for what you think that you need.
I'll use whatever I need to get the job done though, right tool for the job and all that  , no need to argue about which is better, just try to get over the hype.
A programmer with a dream can accomplish anything. So, start by implementing your castle in the clouds and then working on its interface to a foundation 
Quote by: Jeremy Pemberton-Pigott
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Stephen Kellett wrote: This is 5 years after .NET arrived and still no decent IDE?
And doo keep in mind that VC6 was release in 1998 (or maybe 1997)! 8 years later and still nothing much better?!!! 
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire!
Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0
0 rows returned
Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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Personal preference. 
One of these days, I should reformat my Win 2K partition (since that install is now unusable (thanks Nero!!)) and use it as a testing ground for VC8.
--Mike--
Visual C++ MVP
LINKS~! Ericahist | NEW!! PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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I use VS6 because it was the last actual product Microsoft delivered to developers. VS.NET is some incompetent designer's ego trip, which does not constitute a product in my estimation.
It is designed to actively work AGAINST programmers. It was designed without user feedback or anything resembling a user study.
I use VS.NET because some clients need features of the VS7 MFC or C++ compiler, and I use it for teaching because most developers are being forced against their will to use it, but have no real choice, so neither do I, as far as teaching.
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VC++ 6.0 by my own preference. Actually, I'd REALLY prefer VC++ 6.1 but we all know that ain't gonna happen.
I bought VC++ 2003 so I could tinker with it but VC++ 6.0 is still proving to be faster to code/develop with. Working with property pages take longer then the wizards. GDI+ is somewhat painful without intellisense in VC++ 6.0 so Microsoft kinda forces me to use VC++ 2003 when integrating GDI+ into my MFC Doc/View apps but intellisense drags and the help takes forever to load in 2003 so to get things done fast, I choose VC++ 6.0 90% of the time still.
Also, the VC++ 6.0 compiler doesn't allow any managed code command line switches which makes it the best darn NT era compiler even if it's not standards compliant. 
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bob16972 wrote: GDI+ is somewhat painful without intellisense in VC++ 6.0
Have you tried Visual Assist[^] yet?
<center> </center>
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I don't do much C++ development, but what little C++ development I do, despite being a Visual Studio 2005 junkie, I tend to focus on the 6.0 version.
There are several reasons. The most important reason is because it keeps me from being tempted to "dirtify" the project with "/CLR". Call me a purist. But for that matter I don't like the IDE cluttered with non-C++ stuff either. The third reason is because usually when I work in C++ I adopt third party source code, and most (or a lot of) open C++ source code for Windows is still written for v6. Finally, in light of that previous point, Visual Studio 2005 is often a breaking compiler for some reason when importing old projects into it.
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I totally use it out of preference.
I have used .net, and It just doesnt feel comfortable, like VC6.
Im not a power user or anything, but I have never had any problems with VC6, however when I tried to port to .net, I never did get all of my projects working.
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VC6 (with WndTabs) by PREFERENCE because it's STABLE and it works. It's a pity that there is no easy way to ungrade the compiler but 99% of the time it's not really an issue.
Like all the others have said the newer IDE's are slow, pathetic, get in your way.
I think it points to the deeper malise within Microsoft where everything seems to be being designed and written by a new generation of college kids with no real world experience... Performance, Stability and Scalability seem to take a back seat to pretty alpha blended graphics and scripting.
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Joey Bloggs wrote: I think it points to the deeper malise within Microsoft where everything seems to be being designed and written by a new generation of college kids with no real world experience
The last time I was at Microsoft, it was far from being overrun with college kids. Yes their products do have (known) bugs, but that should not overshadow what their products do and do well. Given the complexity of their products, it's amazing they even get them out door at all.
"The greatest good you can do for another is not just to share your riches but to reveal to him his own." - Benjamin Disraeli
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So what from your perspective is the root cause of the problem ?
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If I was smart enough to know the answer to that, I might be smart enough to work for Microsoft. There is no single solution to the problem. Microsoft's Software Development Life Cycle (SDLC) is a very complex beast, and has had years of refinement. It has many goals, but also has provisions for trade-offs (e.g., we acknowledge this is a bug, but since it only affects 1%, or some other small percentage, of the user base, it is not considered high priority). Rest assured that no developer touches a line of code without a dozen others knowing about it. I would be totally surprised, not to mention disappointed, if this were not the case. Code reviews are also common, too, so no one person has sole ownership of a function/module/product.
People are often quick to blame Microsoft, and others, when they make the slightest mistake, but suddenly are stricken by laryngitis (or the I-don't-know-but syndrome) when asked what they would do to solve the problem. It's easy to complain when looking from the outside-in.
"The greatest good you can do for another is not just to share your riches but to reveal to him his own." - Benjamin Disraeli
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