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Interesting dilemma [![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif) ]then
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Inside a very dense space, to which not even light could go out. Making a cup of tea, feeling you and the tea as one. The sound of eternal waiting for that little peace of junk, you missed out when you did enter into that dense space. The sound of "there is no spoon" when you needed to stir that tea. That's the sound of eternal present, where you and the tea are one - collapsed to a single point, but not mixed, yet.
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Most wise words masTear
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I think I have had enough. I still enjoy programming but there seems to be very little of it around any more. I spend my time fighting with the tools rather than working on the solution.
Deployment is an utter farce. Source control is hideous. Web Services are appalling hacks. Web development is a massive step backwards dragging all manner of shonky technologies and libraries together.
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So...situation normal then?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Unfortunately that seems to be the case for how software is developed these days. Programming is out, devops and fighting with sub standard tools is in.
It's not really want I to do
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So change it: come up with a unified solution - gawd knows we need it. Now there is a development task for you! 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I have one. I built my own programming language, it's own IDE, and my own database engine and query GUI (winning several industry awards)
Unfortunately it all requires very little maintenance and deployment takes seconds.
So I am on other projects now - which is mostly about fighting with the tools
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Sounds like you need to move to StartupVille, obtain squillions of dollars in seed capital, party like its 1999, sell and retire. All in a 3 week window!
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RugbyLeague wrote: I have one. I built my own programming language, it's own IDE, and my own database engine and query GUI
Impressive. Sounds a lot like what I did a few years ago as well.
RugbyLeague wrote: Unfortunately it all requires very little maintenance and deployment takes seconds.
Exactly. The funny thing is, it's actually hard to sell the solution because it's so not the Microsoft way. Annoying.
Marc
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So.. what are those tools that you built?
modified 2-Aug-18 21:02pm.
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Mostly in house stuff although we do have some external clients
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Well, don't you then stick to your programming language and IDE to get the job done.
I didn't write my own language (using (Object) Pascal for 38 years), neither my own IDE (use Delphi and/or Lazarus with FreePascal) but get all the work done just fine without "running with all the kool kids on the block"...
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OriginalGriff wrote: So change it: come up with a unified solution
I really like this positive attitude and goal-oriented re-framing of the problem.
This is truly Engineering Life.
+100 Life Points* to you. May you live long an prosper, Gandalf.
1 Life Point = 32 heart points
1 heart point = 6.72 happy points
1 happy point = 3 cups of coffee
1 cup of coffee = warm lively goodness
In normal play, 100 Life Points would take 7.2 game years#
# 7.2 Game Years = 37.38 Real Life Years.
That means you have just gained an extra 37.38 Real Life Years on your life if you choose to redeem them. 
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What tools are you using? I've been using Microsoft Visual tools for 20 odd years and they've never been better. Sure, we all miss Visual SourceSafe and the web is just an abomination, but there's plenty of scope for *proper* programming still.
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
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I have no complaints about the programming language environment in VS2010/12 - they are great.
I loathe any kind of source control - I have never had any actual cause to use it but spend a lot of time fighting it
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RugbyLeague wrote: I loathe any kind of source control
Uh oh.
If you work at a large place you'll get hit over the head with the Source Control Hammer. They just tell you that you must use it. And many source control packages are confusing and annoying, until you learn the point of how they help you.
But Source Control is a Real Programmer's Best Friend.
Why do I say that?
There are many benefits to using Source Control:
Branching -- changing code without damaging your original trunk code. Then if you don't want to do the change, you just drop the branch, nothing lost.
Tagging -- Oh man, there are so many companies that cannot simply check out the exact version of source that was used to build a particular version that is in production. That's because they didn't Tag. With Source Control you can Tag an exact version, then later when someone says there is a bug in version 3.01, you can go and get that exact source and attempt to reproduce the error even though you are 5 versions past it. It is amazing.
Diffing -- I leave on Friday and by Monday I open source files and wonder "who's been hacking around in here?" Answer: "It was me." I can see all of that because I can do diffs on the code from so many angles that I can tell exactly which source files were changed and by who. It is fantastic.
You must see the tools as something working for you and attempt to learn how they work for you to get all of this.
I used to hate source control too, but if you'll see it as a programmer's helper you will see your life can be so much better.
Good luck.
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I have been trying with source control and I kind of understand why some people like it.
Personally I have never had any benefit from it but lots and lots and lots of trouble. Maybe because I don't understand how to use it.
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You'll see the benefit when your hard drive melts down and you need to get the source of the project you're working on. An off site repository is a must.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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previously I backed up to zip files on the server which are subsequently backed up to tape and held off site
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Except that's not SOURCE CONTROL, that's BACKING up - two entirely different things. You should be doing both.
First, assuming you find yourself working in a multi-developer environment... ZIP files does noting for you. How do you reliably get the other developer's changes?
Second, what if you made changes all week and the customer wants you to roll back a portion of it? You can't unless you're zipping every half day. Even then, you lose half a days work.
Third, like someone else mentioned, how would you branch / merge? You can't without source control.
I agree that source control is tedious, kludgy, and a real mess. I STILL don't get TFS on-line, but in VS it works ok. Having said that, I would Never work without it.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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I know it isn't source control.
I have always previously worked in a team of one - me.
The customer has never asked me to roll back a portion of it as I always keep the customer in the loop with what I am doing and plan to do.
I have never had a reason to branch/merge
I understand why people use source control - I am venting because I am having to use it.
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RugbyLeague wrote: I am venting because I am having to use it.
Believe me, the day will come that you will say:
"Thank God they made me use it".
Oh, and try to compile and commit the changes every day. The benefit may become more palpable.
Plus, there are source controls that are easier and more intuitive to work than others. Some are a real breeze to work with. Which one are you using?
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
----
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Even when I worked in a team of one I found source control essential. It is great when you realise you screwed something up six versions ago and you can go back and see exactly what changes you made.
Yes, I resisted at first. My boss wanted me to use Bazaar. Despite what others may say, I like subversion and I use it for everything.
Backups? Easy. Just back up tthe respository.
I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
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