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S u n s h i n e wrote: You wouldn't happen to be *job* agent 007 now, would you?
If he were he would have started out the conversation with "I have a fantastic opportunity for you with a leading company". 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Whether I think I can, or think I can't, I am always bloody right!
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All of this quite normal for UK agencies and from your reading these were actually good experiences 
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I was made redundant last year after nearly 14 years with the same company. My story with job agencies is similar to yours in that I was put forward for jobs that were inappropriate in some way or in some cases just wrong. No doubt their thinking was "he's unemployed, he'll take anything."
Jacek Glen wrote: One of the problems I found, at least here in the UK, is that devs are not clients of job agents. We are products that agents try to sell and therefore we are treated accordingly.
I completely agree with this and was certainly the case when I dealt with the 'big boys'. In the end I had the most success with a one-man job agency. He was very professional and took the time to find what I wanted and could realistically expect, rather than just put me forward for jobs that seemed to match a keyword search.
I'm very happy in my new job BTW!
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This is happening to me right now. As well as the dev being off bit. I have had similar run-ins with recruiters, but here's a matching one:
I get a lead on a position from a friend. He knows a couple of the people in there, and get me in. I nailed the interview. They set up the second interview right there, which is unheard of for that company. Calls from the friend telling me I slam dunked it. Get a call the day before the second interview telling me that a "key person" was going to be absent and they couldn't go ahead iwthout them. I can expect a call from one of the office people to reschedule.
I've not heard from them. The funny thing is, I already interviewed with the hr admin, the sr. app developer, the sr. web developer, and the head of hte programming department. This was just supposed to be following up and meeting with the other team members, talking about wages, benefits, etc... What "key person" could you possibly be missing?
Jacek Glen wrote: PS. In another moment of enlightenment, I re-considered my position and the current company is not that bad after all.
I'm coming to the same result. Especially since someone quit recently , and I used that to my advantage to get some change happening.
Elephant elephant elephant, sunshine sunshine sunshine
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Jacek Glen wrote: do you find job agents to be quite unprofessional
Some are utter liars; like saying you get interview expenses and then ignoring your request to get them after the interview.
We should have a list of bad agencies so we can black list them.
"The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s." climate-models-go-cold
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That's a great idea! There should be a forum for bad agencies. We can all put war stories and names and stuff. would be great.
Elephant elephant elephant, sunshine sunshine sunshine
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We should. Some website somewhere, or a forum or something where we can name and shame, because some of them are the pits.
"The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s." climate-models-go-cold
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Trouble is it's not the agency, it's the agency employees. Otherwise unemployable types on commission who will do anything to get a tick in the "contacted" box. They frequently have to make targets for contacts, etc. and will say anything to get you on the list. And when they fail to meet the (probably unrealistic) targets, they are let go - and move to another agency and do the same all over again. 
They know nothing about the jobs they are trying to fill, they care nothing for the people they are trying to fill them with...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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OriginalGriff wrote: Trouble is it's not the agency, it's the agency employees.
THe agency is its employees, and if it cant control them it needs shaming.
All the rest of what you say is true for some agencies, and they must be named. If not its not going to get better.
"The whole idea that carbon dioxide is the main cause of the recent global warming is based on a guess that was proved false by empirical evidence during the 1990s." climate-models-go-cold
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Munchies_Matt wrote: THe agency is its employees, and if it cant control them it needs shaming.
All the rest of what you say is true for some agencies, and they must be named. If not its not going to get better.
It's all the agencies, or most all with very few exceptions.
If you want to get an interview you need to go through them. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.
If you can come up with a list of good agencies that would be more helpful.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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SELECT * FROM recruiters
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Jacek Glen wrote: So, is it just me or do you find job agents to be quite unprofessional too?
It's being professionally lazy; they optimize their chances by employing prejudice and bias, and only take time to look at what appears to be a deadbeat-match. Anything that requires work is dismissed immediately.
Since the pool of people they pick from is large enough, no problems. If problems do arise, then a customer may be lost - but who cares about a single customer? 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: It's being professionally lazy; they optimize their chances by employing prejudice and bias, and only take time to look at what appears to be a deadbeat-match. Anything that requires work is dismissed immediately.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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They are all the same (in my experience): stupid, useless, dishonest ...
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Oh yes, you tell them!!
But wait, when you say "stupid, useless and dishonest", you don't mean software developers, do you?
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Agents! of what I have no idea.
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Well it's not Fortune[^], it could be Chaos[^]?
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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I hope you're taking the phone interview with #3 to explain to them that you aren't interested in the position, that you tried to explain that to the agent a half dozen times before he/she setup the interview, but it just didn't seem to be sinking in.
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I found your stories really funny (and you are a talented writer, in my opinion).
I've had few experiences with job agents, but suspect your conclusions are right.
Veni, vidi, vici.
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Yeah, these are normal stories in my experience. I find head hunters like this to be on the same level as "Used Car Salesman".
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: I find head hunters like this to be on the same level as "Used Car Salesman".
Head Hunters aspire to be as honest as Used Car Salesmen. 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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So:
</div> is an invalid self-closing tag and is viewed as a new tag
while:
<img></img> is seen as a stray ending tag,
And all the while, it sort of looks like XML.
1. I can see now why there was a push for XHTML
2. Learning the details of this makes me loathe HTML even more
3. The W3C people are....wait for it...IDIOTS
4. This is why I'm writing a DSL to generate HTML. I never want to write a line of HTML again. Or Javascript. Or CSS.
There. I'm done.
For the moment.
Marc
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Well - at least for the example you've submitted I don't see your squawk:
<div/> is most likely an error, and at best, pointless (<br> works better and is clearer and has no closing '/'). How would XHTML handle this better? One's opinion enters in upon what better means.
<img ...> has no end tag - but this makes sense: one is not supposed to have any content potential between tags of the image type (were they allowed). One sure way of preventing this is to flag the closing tag as invalid.
Now - eliminating the internal closing tag for (i.e., no <img ... /> - I can see a good argument for that as the closing tag is a good flag that this is, indeed, the end, of a self closing element.
Remember . . . above all . . . it's for the internet. Is it really worth being any more rigorous when you consider what will be done with it?
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Remember . . . above all . . . it's for the internet. Is it really worth being any more rigorous when you consider what will be done with it?
Do you really want your pr0n to break in mid-image?
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