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PedroMC wrote: You can have Vista Ultimate, or Mac OS X, or GNU/Linux, or all of them together.
No you can't. OS X doesn't run out of the box on any hardware other than Apple hardware. So if running OSX is a priority or desire you need to get Apple hardware. While it's technically possible to get OS X to run on non-Apple PC's it's
a) a violation of the EULA
b) a PITA in the long term (and short term for that matter)
PedroMC wrote: As for software support, most computer shops and vendors provide a variety of services but I have no experience with that.
And most tend to be pretty poor. Apple has a really good overall reputation in regards to customer service and support. There have been a number of articles where year after year Apple consistently rates significantly higher in customer satisfaction over other vendors like HP, Gateway, or Dell.
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Jim Crafton wrote: No you can't. OS X doesn't run out of the box on any hardware other than Apple hardware.
It's amazing how people think they are Mac authorities when they don't even know something as common as that (I'm dissing the other dude, not you should it not be obvious). That being said, I wish Apple would drop this restriction.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: I wish Apple would drop this restriction.
I actually don't, because then they'd have to support all sorts of crazy hardware combinations, just like windows does, and we've all seen the stability problems this causes Microsoft.
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Jim Crafton wrote: I actually don't
Yeah, but I'm in a whiny mood, so work with me here.
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OK, fair enough!!
Let's go nuts here and make the freetards happy, let's start an online petition (because we all now what a powerful impact they have) to have Apple GPL OS X! Woot!
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Jim Crafton wrote: Apple GPL OS X! Woot!
Now we're talking.
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Right, and since we're at it, and we all know that hardware, like information, just wants to be free, let's petition to get Apple to just give away their computers, after all, why should we have to pay them for it? They're clearly just a bunch of leftist-pinko-commie-anti-jeffersonian-socialist-euro-thugs that want to take advantage of us all.
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Jim Crafton wrote: They're clearly just a bunch of leftist-pinko-commie-anti-jeffersonian-socialist-euro-thugs that want to take advantage of us all.
Well, if they gave it away, how would Steve Jobs fund his evil satanic empire? I mean, we gotta look at the big picture here.
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Please, don't interrupt my stream of consciousness babbling with logic! Big picture? Is that free yet?
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Jim Crafton wrote: Big picture? Is that free yet?
I just got back from Wal-Mart because you know how I can't resist evil empires. Anyway, I can confirm they are still charging for Big Picture. Sorry man.
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Jim Crafton wrote: No you can't. OS X doesn't run out of the box on any hardware other than Apple hardware.
True but easily solved.
Jim Crafton wrote: So if running OSX is a priority or desire you need to get Apple hardware.
It is not my priority but I have it on one of my machines, not a Mac, for the learning experience. Apple hardware is not needed but you need to be careful when choosing the hardware for compatibility.
Jim Crafton wrote: a) a violation of the EULA
Don't care much about the EULA, I buy one license and can use it for one install. I have even had it run on a virtual machine but it was too slow so I installed it on the hardware on one of my machines that was compatible.
Jim Crafton wrote: b) a PITA in the long term (and short term for that matter)
No problems here.
Jim Crafton wrote: And most tend to be pretty poor.
Maybe so, but like I said, I do all my software support so it is irrelevant for me. If hardware support is better then it may be worth the extra hardware cost.
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PedroMC wrote: The savings in the hardware would easily cover the extra cost of one Mac OS X license plus one year Mandriva support and maybe some extra RAM or a external 1T disk.
Only if you steal your software for that Windows installation. Go look at total cost of ownership and come back when you actually price the software Apple makes (ie, office software) compared to Microsoft. Sure, if you use Linux no sweat, free is always the cheapest. But the Apple is expensive debate is always against Microsoft. But, nobody looks at the whole picture when being biased.
Oh, and one vote is from me because I'm not a fan of the FUD people like you spread. But, then again, who has time to bother with real research when it's religion speaking.
The only time Apple gets insanely expensive is if you go extremely high end or if you steal/only use free software. And lets not forget when you install Mac OS X it comes with software you can use forever and not 30 trials like your typical PC OEM.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Only if you steal your software for that Windows installation. Go look at total cost of ownership and come back when you actually price the software Apple makes (ie, office software) compared to Microsoft.
Your statement is illogical since you can get Mac OS X and any Mac OS X software you want running on better and equally priced hardware or lower priced and equivalent hardware. In the end, not using Apple hardware to run Mac OS X software will give you a lower cost.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: But the Apple is expensive debate is always against Microsoft.
Not true! Proof, the case in point.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: But, nobody looks at the whole picture when being biased.
I'm being biased to my needs and requirements and I would expect you to do the same. I don't participate in these debates to "spread the truth" or "discover the truth". I participate to learn about different view point and maybe improve my own view point.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: Oh, and one vote is from me because I'm not a fan of the FUD people like you spread. But, then again, who has time to bother with real research when it's religion speaking.
I, the FUD spreader, have done my work. LOL
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PedroMC wrote: Your statement is illogical since you can get Mac OS X and any Mac OS X software you want running on better and equally priced hardware or lower priced and equivalent hardware. In the end, not using Apple hardware to run Mac OS X software will give you a lower cost.
Your statement is uneducated and proves you can't read a whole thread. For one, you must run OSX on Mac hardware so your scenario couldn't happen LEGALLY. For two the hardware isn't more expensive every time. For three you can get away with paying less OVER ALL for a Mac than a PC so this whole argument that you propose is illogical.
If you combine the cost of going the Apple route vs the PC route with Windows you can pay LESS a lot of times for Apple. Not say you'll always pay less, but that's the whole point. People like you that just blindly assume without learning spread the FUD. And that's religious. Too bad most people are zealots instead of a real professionals, but I digress.
PedroMC wrote:
I'm being biased to my needs and requirements and I would expect you to do the same. I don't participate in these debates to "spread the truth" or "discover the truth". I participate to learn about different view point and maybe improve my own view point.
Then learn already and stop pretending you're learning when you're not.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Your statement is uneducated and proves you can't read a whole thread.
I have lost patience for the tone you are using so I'm just going to say ...
Jeremy Falcon wrote:For one, you must run OSX on Mac hardware so your scenario couldn't happen LEGALLY.
... that in my country, the Parliament makes the laws, including those related to software licensing, not Apple or any other software company. I, the uneducated one, sign out of this debate...
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PedroMC wrote: I have lost patience for the tone you are using so I'm just going to say ...
So basically you're not man enough to admit you're wrong so you'll dismiss it.
PedroMC wrote: ... that in my country, the Parliament makes the laws, including those related to software licensing, not Apple or any other software company. I, the uneducated one, sign out of this debate...
Lets get real you didn't know that point but whatever. Now, explain to me which law states Apple cannot enforce that? Nobody said they can send to you jail over it in every country. But they sure can not support it, etc.
Regardless, your point is still invalid since you can't run OSX on non-apple hardware in most places. And I suspect it's the same with your country until you can specifically point out a law. Call my crazy but I need proof before I believe something. And even if you did it doesn't make your original point valid.
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Paul A. Howes wrote: That argument has been proven false time and time again.
Hey, don't confuse people with the truth.
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Computafreak wrote: I'm sorry
I'm not.
Paul
A .NET developer who now drinks the Ruby and Cocoa Koolaid.
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That is what matters, your money, your satisfaction.
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Exactly! You have my "5" on that post.
Paul
A .NET developer who now drinks the Ruby and Cocoa Koolaid.
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Paul A. Howes wrote: Computafreak wrote:
I'm sorry
I'm not.
I'm not either, enjoy your Mac!
I just bought a Mac too, a Mac Pro and I love it!
earlier I hadn't upgraded for quite a while so it was time to do so now (had a pc before)
so, I hope you love your new mac just as much as I do!
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Computafreak wrote: I'm sorry
I'm sorry you're religious.
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I'm not a PC zealot. I just happen to prefer to be able to buy almost any combination of hardware knowing that it will actually be work and be supported
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Computafreak wrote: knowing that it will actually be work and be supported
I guess you didn't pay attention to PCs with Vista and 64-bit in the past few years. You'll never see that debacle with a Mac. But, I don't expect religious people to play fair.
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Just so you know, neither of the univotes came from me. That's immature
I really don't buy into your point. Vista has been the exception, not the rule, and even in that singular instance, it was pretty much sorted out after a short time (by SP1, I think most of the problems were water under the bridge). Windows 7 has support for almost every configuration out there, and so does Windows XP
Jeremy Falcon wrote: You'll never see that debacle with a Mac
Only because Apple simply don't support products which aren't certified. I admittedly don't know much about the support process, so feel free to correct me; this interests me. While this does improve overall reliability by zapping bad drivers, it increases the time-to-market and price massively
By the way, I'm not a zealot. If I found a Mac which would support the common drivers (generic keyboard, mouse, printer), support a reasonable range of software and not break the bank (less than £500), I would happily buy it. But I haven't
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