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Excellent analogy though congestion is orders of magnitude smaller and there are less trees to bump into if you veer off the..whatever you call the thing planes fly on in the sky.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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But you'd never get off the ground because takeoffs are done manually. Pilots are (or are supposed to) constantly monitor the autopilot, and nearly all landings are done manually.
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1) Some years ago I saw a movie, I think it was called Avatar. The basic premise was that humans were able to control alien bodies remotely. I left the movie theater chuckling and shaking my head, because Hollywood was (as usual) completely clueless about how technology is made.
In this movie when the connection was lost the Avatar would lose consciousness, fall down (and perhaps break his head). I don't know if we will ever have that kind of remote control of another body (probably yes) but I can give you the 1st line of the code right here and now:
If (ConnectionLost == True) Then SitDown
The concept is called "Graceful Degradation" and real, useful computer-driven cars will need to implement something similar.
2) Horse-drawn carts cannot go on expressways. Right now computer-driven cars are of dubious safety and there are some pretty strict rules about their use in public streets. However, once there is a critical mass of computer-driven cars we will immediately start having rules and regulations restricting the use of *manual* cars. At some point in the not too distant future there will be whole streets and complete neighborhoods (and maybe cities) where you will not be able to drive a manual car. Enough of that and the manual car goes the way of the horse cart.
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From RoSPA (the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents):
Reported Road Casualties in Great Britain, 2012
Killed 1,754
Seriously Injured 23,039
Slightly Injured 170,930
All 195,723
I'd say cars with human drivers are of dubious safety, looking at the figures above. Even worse, Britain is among the safest countries to drive in. Imagine what these figures must be worldwide 
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Yesterday I was watching listening to the TV where in an ad they were touting the advantages of a home security system to moms and they actually had the audacity to proclaim that a "land line" was vulnerable and this product did not use the rascal land lines presumably for this reason.
In no time flat your reliable "old mare and attached buggy" will be illegal. What ever that may be, your flip phone, your faith........
Still, I fancy a driverless car.
Imagine being able to amuse and abuse you alls at 80 mph. 
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Right off the bat... I answered "Definitely not." to the survey. Can you imagine them trying to code a car to be able to hang with an all-of-a-sudden down-pour in SoCal where a whole years worth of road oil gets washed-up to the surface of that water? Yeah... sure... like some code is going to be able to handle my truck all of a sudden wanting to slide the back-end out "flat-track" style in a turn.
Anyway, do we really need more things to confine us to sitting behind a desk and not actively participating in the experience anymore than we already do?
That being said... the idea struck me that a self-driving car... though it would suck for most of us... I got to thinking about all the assholes who for some reason simply can NOT put down their cellphones... OR all the assholes who DON'T obey the "Slower Traffic Keep To The Right" signs. OR all the assholes who jump into an HOV lane... then proceed to drive at a speed below the "de facto" speed people expect to achieve by going into the God Damned HOV lane to begin with.
Hrmm... I wonder if maybe these self-driving cars should be a punishment handed-down to drivers who have committed verifiable acts to demonstrate their poor skills or poor responsibility? Gotta DUI? Ok... you wanna get around? You gotta LEASE a self-drive car. You were at fault in an accident that permanently injured another person? You gotta LEASE a self-drive car.
The flip-side... I know some people would actually LIKE (EEK!!) to have a self-drive car so they could scrape together even MORE minutes of their life to be stuck behind a computer/laptop during the week. Those people are often already parking at Metro train stations in their satellite communities and commuting into their downtown jobs... already answering Emails, etc.
Hrmm... wait a sec... if my car is driving itself... OH SNAP! That gives me an opportunity for some "Road-Head"!!! or Gettin' Busy down the 15 headin' to Vegas!
I may have to re-think this whole self-driving thing.
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...as long as there was physical, immediate, no nonsense switch to manual. If I notice somebody playing with my car from the outside, I want to be able to take over. Same for any kind of alert that the car might issue (camera broken, mudded, blinded, whatever)
I believe the traffic jams would near on disappear as impatient drivers wouldn't run through red and get stuck in the middle of the crossroads just as the other side starts, there wouldn't be "slalom skiing" in the traffic with the cars running one in front of the other only to switch places because slower lane just got faster.
I believe it would be much safer on the road. But I wouldn't let my kids into such car without me being near to switch if needed. And I would still require the driver to have the license or the car should know to simply force stop if manual switch is triggered - some (again physical) switch that would be set for drivers and non-drivers.
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Sinisa Hajnal wrote: ...as long as there was physical, immediate, no nonsense switch to manual.
That probably is an illusion. Especially on a longer trip, you will of course stay perfectly alert and be able to take over in a split second. I really fear that very many people would be foolish enough only to pretend to be alert and secretly pass the time with all kinds of little distractions.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
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I didn't say I wanted to be alert at all times, hostile takeover of the car hopefully will not be for causing instant crash. But if the car starts to behave strangely, I want the ability to take over without dependance on electronic brain (which could be controlled) - as far as the AI for driving leaves me to steer and stop if I want regardless of what the outside command (or inside algorithm) want to do, I'd take it.
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It's already happening without computers driving...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-31295774[^]
I've been driving for 25 years, done up to 40,000 miles a year on occasion. There have been a few near misses and I'm honest enough to admit a few mistakes on my part, simply due to human error.
I try to be careful and try to stick to the speed limit, but there are always distractions - I know we all believe we're the worlds greatest driver, but really we're not. Most of the time we're lucky. Most of the time we don't even realise that we've been lucky, we assume it's talent 
Anyone who thinks they're a great driver is deluding themselves.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Nobody seems to be mentioning this ... it is not really up to us! Our insurance companies will (in due course) realize that these cars drive better and safer than humans, and will either refuse to insure manual cars or else price the insurance out of reach for most people. At some point in the 2nd half of this century owning a manually-driven car will be the mark of luxury. Eventually, manually-driven cars will be relegated to special roads and there will be driver clubs ... kind of like the vintage car clubs of today.
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Hi there!
Quite a few years ago I used to work in metal manufacturing (writing AI code to optimize job scheduling for turret punch presses; fascinating stuff). You are very right in that people do not see the connection--more and more critical pieces of what we use every day are completely machine-made. Guess it is inevitable, so we might as well get used to it ...
Cheers!
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I agree whole-heartedly. The insurance companies and the lawmakers will, in due course, make it exceptionally risky and expensive to ever drive yourself after this technology is common place.
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Maybe the insurance companies will prevent this because if they become un-crashable, they'd be out of business!
But like the stories of the oil industry trying to stifle investment in cleaner technologies.
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In some crazy government scheme to make roads safer, self-driving cars may someday be mandatory.
I don't think this is too far of a stretch. It wasn't that long ago when airbags and seatbelts were optional.
There are now a whole myriad of safety features which have been introduced in recent years. Many new cars have back-up cameras and blind spot sensors; while many others have radar systems that can automatically slow you down, or even apply the brakes if you get too close to the vehicle ahead. There are even some cars that can park their self.
Ten or fifteen years ago this technology would have sounded like science fiction, yet it is a reality today.
There are actually some self driving cars now. It is only a matter of time before the technology becomes mainstream.
I for one welcome our robot overlords the technology. In certain scenarios, it makes sense to implement it. Most passenger planes already fly-by-wire. It could be very useful in public transportation as well. Why have a person drive a shuttle bus back and forth in an airport when a machine can do it just as well? The technology may also work well in city buses.
However, I do enjoy driving very much. I drive a manual, and I love the additional control over the vehicle that I have. It is getting much tougher to find a new manual car. Almost every car in a new car lot now is an automatic.
No matter how good the technology gets, it will never be as good as a skilled driver behind the wheel. No amount of sensors and CPU power will ever truly replace a human being.
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The key phrase is 'skilled driver behind the wheel'. Because it wouldn't many working sensors or a significant amount of CPU to replace some of them.
Detective Del Spooner:
You are a clever imitation of life... Can a robot write a symphony? Can a robot take a blank canvas and turn it into a masterpiece?
Sonny:
Can you?
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As more and more companies get into developing these cars, we are going to see a gradual evolution. First, many commercial vehicles will be self driving (taxi's, delivery vans, etc.). Next will be longer range vehicles (transport trucks). After that, we'll see auto driving zones in cities where auto driving is required. This will be in congested areas or possibly even in restricted areas (downtown DC). Assuming the auto driving cars perform as expected, what follows will be increased insurance liability if you are self driving. After that, people will only drive themselves for the pleasure or the release of it, not for the mundane reason of transportation. Many, if not all, of these changes will come by law, lobbied by the companies that are selling these vehicles and the insurance agencies involved(presuming, again, that these vehicles perform as expected and reduce the overall chance of an accident).
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Quote: Assuming the auto driving cars perform as expected, what follows will be increased insurance liability if you are self driving.
I don't see why that should follow. Surely all the self-drive vehicles will automatically miss you, assuming you are driving sensibly and not swerving all over the place trying to cause an accident. Therefore, the more self-drive cars there are on the road, the less your premium should be.
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I would presume, if the auto driving cars are performing as expected, then the primary source of all accidents would be those vehicles being driven by humans. Imagine the human isn't paying attention and the auto car in front of him/her has to brake for a light in heavy traffic (no where to go left or right), then the human is the cause of the accident. Same goes for loss of control due to speed or falling asleep. All of these would be reasons to increase liability if the human is driving.
As I re-read your reply, I think there was a miss-communication on my part in the original post. Self-drive = human driver. Auto-drive = computer driver. Probably bad terms that I picked there.
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Even if safety issues are handled at an acceptable level (and THAT could take years!), what could follow, especially for Americans who have had a unique cultural relationship with the automobile from the beginning, is a different question altogether, a question that has not been explored to any degree that I have seen: If I can't drive my own car without being penalized (by higher insurance rates, greater legal liabilities, etc.), AND the commuter fleets (including taxi's as you have postulated) are predominantly AutoDrive, why, then would I even bother buying my own car? Why incur the expense (purchase and maintenance) when the personal enjoyment has become so restricted? I think this could result in a significant redirection in the automobile market away from consumer ownership -- and THAT is a huge financial hit.
e2ware
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That is a very good point. I've not seen that aspect of this discussed anywhere before. It will be interesting to see how that would play out. I have a feeling that a significant market will still exist, but maybe not as much on the lower end of the price spectrum. For those living in cities, I think personal car ownership would become even more of a luxury item than it is today. Interesting line of reasoning.
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As I said to Original Griff when he raised the question yesterday, I love driving! In more then 50 years behind the wheel, I have never owned an automatic and I never will.
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I like driving too. I also swore never to drive an automatic. Now I have two. Oh well...
I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
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