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sorry, we're in the Los Angeles area...the company is NBP (New Bedford Panoramex)
Steve
_________________
I C(++) therefore I am
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For the first time in many years I'm truly happy again in my job and now I realise it is to do with being able to interact with the users and see how they use the software and what works best for them.
For the 6-7 years before this position, I was part of teams where I was blind as to where my piece of the puzzle fitted in within the whole picture. I repeatedly asked for the opportunity to visit clients on site and at least see them in action with the software, but NOOOOOOOOOOO!
Again before that I was happy for 4 years in a place where we used the developed software internally and I got immediate feedback.
Having an engineering and analytical background myself, I have always been able to serve the clients better when I could talk to them and see what they were doing. I would sometimes come up with solutions that they had not even thought of. Only then would things translate to software! And we would both be happy.
How can you confine a developer to a cubicle and expect your software to answer the real problems of the client? If that is not bad enough, what is worse is that in places where I worked and they did just that, the Functional Requirements Specification (FRS) document would come to me AFTER I had finished 80% of the work. Indeed the Business Analyst would ask me what should go into the FRS. It's a joke believing we give developers enough understanding for them to be able to sit and develop a mature, well thought out solution in a cubicle.
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If you don't talk to your users, no-one else is going to tell you what works / doesn't work. What they are actually doing with your software. What they don't / can't / won't use.
If you listen to what they say, then all out jobs get easier.
Supporting them is a pain, but it is worth doing right - and at least the users know that the person on the other end actually has run the software, rather than reading from a script on a cheaper continent...
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
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Best End-User Support ? End the user
Yeee
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End the user - End our jobs...
Happy user == more work for us.
Think about it: Do you go back to a restaurant if you felt you got sh*t service and food? Or try somewhere else instead?
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
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if i wanted a opinion from you - i would've made a prank call to 911.
Yeee
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If you didn't want an opinion, why respond?
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
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we need the users more than the users need us, imo
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Yup, this is one of those cases where it should be "goes without saying". How on earth anyone makes software that is worth a damn when they don't talk to their users regularly seems impossible to me.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea”
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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But, but what about the big software factories where you have a bunch of code monkeys, then teams leads then BAs and the BAs are the only ones to talk to the users and the PM are the approvers - oh yeah I forgot, they turn out crap most of the time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Yup and if they gave a damn they'd involve the developers in meetings with the customers even if it was sitting in the background and keeping their mouths shut and rotating through all the developers if necessary. Any developer who has any effect whatsoever on the usability of code to the end user and who has not looked a user in the eye as they describe the trouble they have with using the program is a crap developer who will learn nothing and make horrendous design mistakes over and over.
P.S. how's Sherlock doing these days?
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea”
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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John C wrote: how's Sherlock doing these days?
The moniker actually came from this book The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress[^] but then I'm an old fart who grew up on RAHs stuff.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Ahh...I too grew up on RAH and I remember that computer well. I guess I should have asked how's Mannie doing these days.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea”
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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John C wrote: how's Mannie doing these days
Still scratching his arse with his tin hand!
I just started reading the Uplift series, Sundiver, I look forward to the rest of the series although I'm pretty sure I have read some of them in isolation.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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That's what I would have picked.
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There's no CListCtrl either!
It was ever thus, the Neophiles will always rush out and get 'The Latest Thing' at a high price and with all the inherent faults - Dalek Dave.
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In my case Developer team is different than Support team
So, It is not common we talk with the final user. Normally we do it with the consultants, and with the marketing department. And they with the users.
I think if the company is small, the team has to do my tasks and could have contact with the users.
luisnike19
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I get to talk to my customers all the time and basically I am part of their team, although I work for a different organization. I am the developer, support team, requirements gatherer, etc. Where I am most fortunately is that they love my software, especially because I am able to deliver extremely quick turn-around on their requirements. At times, they think I am a god...
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don't know why there is some prick going around univoting the poll comments. anyway i +5'd you.
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I seriously look forward to going back to a one man show or at least a very small team again. Our team has grown from 2 people to about 15 over the last 5 years and the entire aspect of the job has changed
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Marc
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Only if you also listen to yourself.
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Nah its when you start arguing with yourself and then brag about winning the argument that you need to worry.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I visit my users frequently (they're handily in the same building). The rapport is such that they'll do some things for me which are quite valuable:
- They'll contact me with little problems (before they grow)
- They'll make practical suggestions
- If they get a pop-up error message, they all know to write it down for me, or call me while it's still on their screen
This turns out to be a symbiosis: they get the tweaks to make their work easier. In one case, I change the background of the app to fit in with the season - and relieve the boredom. It's painless and shows a little thought.
It just seems, if one is fortunate enough for this scenario to exist, the right way to do things. Convert the enemy* (user) into an ally (feel like a partner). Give them the feeling (illusion ?) that I'm an approachable human being.
The benefit for both sides of this is apps that, shortly after the initial release, don't even hiccup in use. Makes us all so happy.
* We are (or should be) programming defensively, which implies we are under attack, which further implies an enemy, and that the enemy is the attacker.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek dissappointment. If you are searching for perfection in yourself, then you seek failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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