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GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Nelek15-Aug-23 8:55
protectorNelek15-Aug-23 8:55 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Alister Morton14-Aug-23 23:22
Alister Morton14-Aug-23 23:22 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jeremy Falcon15-Aug-23 2:14
professionalJeremy Falcon15-Aug-23 2:14 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Nelek15-Aug-23 8:57
protectorNelek15-Aug-23 8:57 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Alister Morton15-Aug-23 21:15
Alister Morton15-Aug-23 21:15 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Nelek14-Aug-23 11:21
protectorNelek14-Aug-23 11:21 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jeremy Falcon14-Aug-23 11:30
professionalJeremy Falcon14-Aug-23 11:30 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
trønderen14-Aug-23 3:21
trønderen14-Aug-23 3:21 
(For the general question of what to forbid, not smoking in particularSmile | :)

One dilemma if you select alternative 2: Who is to decide what is "for the good of society"? We have lots of laws that forbids actions or whatever simply because "You ain't supposed to!" Not because there is any obvious logical reason for it, beyond "You ain't supposed to!".

Most of this has to do with socalled "morals", which usually translates to either the human body or religion. Lots of the regulations are not laws in the legal sense, but "moral laws".

There are lots of words I can't speak, if I am to follow the commandments of church people, even if I do not belong to their faith. There are parts of my body I must keep hidden, according to some people even for my own children. There are things I can see, but I can't preserve a memory of what I saw, using a camera. Maybe not even using a sketchpad and a pencil; that depends. Lots of things I am not allowed to seem, even if I am allowed to know that it exists.

Those defending such laws claim that society would suffer if people did the forbidden thing; that's why it is forbidden. The problem with moral laws is that other cultures without such laws display none of the claimed suffering. In Thailand, if you display your foot soles to the king, you might be thrown in jail for years. That makes no sense to us: What is wrong by letting the king see your foot soles? Here, we rather throw you in jail if you display your "private parts"; that is just so terrible - think of the children! Take our attitudes to non-Westernized cultures where nude bodies can be seen anywhere. Or even go to a nudist resort searching for the terrible suffering of the kids (and adults) there!

Age limits for various knowledge varies greatly around the world. What can be told by school books varies greatly around the world. What is allowed to exist in images/movies, art, literature and so on varies a lot. If I were to move to the land of the free, USA, I would have to leave a couple dozen books behind, as they would be forbidden (depending on the state). I would have to teach my kids to build serious emotional conflicts if they see my body, or I see theirs. In some states I would tell then to keep secret that we know that two people of the same sex truly and honestly love each other. And so on.

Also, there is a great variation from one country/state to another regarding who is allowed to enjoy different kinds of food, drink and other pleasures (often, but not always, determined by age). Again: Documenting consistent harmful effects in countries allowing it, which are consistently absent in countries forbidding it may be difficult or impossible.

For smoking in particular: Sorry, Rob, I am of the sensitive kind that can have trouble breathing if a heavy smoker enters the bus, especially if he sits down on a seat next to me or in front of me, even if he hasn't been smoking for half an hour. If a smoker visits me, as soon as he leaves, I open all windows wide to get that bad air out. (Obviously, I do not permit any indoor smoking in my home.) So I am very much in favor of the current ban on smoking in indoors public places, and I would support a ban even in public outdoors places.

It does affect me. Actually, it affects me even if you only smoke in your own home and your friends' home, if you sit down next to me on the bus. But at least for now I am willing to tolerate that (to allow you to feed that creeping lung cancer of yours Smile | :) ).

I do not consider a ban on public smoking a "moral" law, but a way to protect myself (and others) from harm. I am much more concerned about those "moral" laws where noone whatsoever is harmed; the only harm is breaking that "You ain't supposed to!"
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Single Step Debugger14-Aug-23 3:43
Single Step Debugger14-Aug-23 3:43 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
trønderen14-Aug-23 5:04
trønderen14-Aug-23 5:04 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Single Step Debugger14-Aug-23 5:44
Single Step Debugger14-Aug-23 5:44 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jeremy Falcon14-Aug-23 6:28
professionalJeremy Falcon14-Aug-23 6:28 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
trønderen15-Aug-23 10:35
trønderen15-Aug-23 10:35 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jörgen Andersson15-Aug-23 21:17
professionalJörgen Andersson15-Aug-23 21:17 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jeremy Falcon16-Aug-23 1:40
professionalJeremy Falcon16-Aug-23 1:40 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
trønderen16-Aug-23 4:19
trønderen16-Aug-23 4:19 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jeremy Falcon17-Aug-23 3:11
professionalJeremy Falcon17-Aug-23 3:11 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
trønderen17-Aug-23 7:02
trønderen17-Aug-23 7:02 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jeremy Falcon17-Aug-23 9:23
professionalJeremy Falcon17-Aug-23 9:23 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jeremy Falcon16-Aug-23 1:34
professionalJeremy Falcon16-Aug-23 1:34 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
trønderen16-Aug-23 4:43
trønderen16-Aug-23 4:43 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jeremy Falcon17-Aug-23 3:10
professionalJeremy Falcon17-Aug-23 3:10 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Nelek16-Aug-23 10:23
protectorNelek16-Aug-23 10:23 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Jeremy Falcon17-Aug-23 3:07
professionalJeremy Falcon17-Aug-23 3:07 
GeneralRe: Internal conflict Pin
Nelek17-Aug-23 8:58
protectorNelek17-Aug-23 8:58 

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