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A certain Pompey guy still supports tea bags...
THESE PEOPLE REALLY BOTHER ME!! How can they know what you should do without knowing what you want done?!?!
-- C++ FQA Lite
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I only just saw this. I'm an Italian supporter for the next 2 games, if you win them both and we beat Costa Rica then we get to go out in the next round instead.
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P0mpey3 wrote: I'm an Italian supporter for the next 2 games
This makes me tremble a bit. 
By the way I didn't watch last England match. I enjoyed England vs Italy, a game played well on both sides, in my opinion.
THESE PEOPLE REALLY BOTHER ME!! How can they know what you should do without knowing what you want done?!?!
-- C++ FQA Lite
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Yeah I thought before the game that our young forwards would get the better of your defenders. But was really impressed with the Italian defence after you went 2-1 up, it was obvious we wasn't going to score.
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CPallini wrote: I enjoyed England vs Italy, a game played well on both sides, in my opinion.
I especially like the fact you give the Italian Olympic Diving team something to do between Olympics.
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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 envious
THESE PEOPLE REALLY BOTHER ME!! How can they know what you should do without knowing what you want done?!?!
-- C++ FQA Lite
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P0mpey3 wrote: I'm an Italian supporter
Sure you're not just an athletic supporter? 
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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I do not want to know how many days your teabag stays in your cup. 
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I've heard he likes a good teabagging, could be weeks.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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1. Your country has never even qualified for a World Cup.
2. England aren't yet mathematically out, if we can beat CR and Italy win their two games we can still finish above CR and Uruguay on goal difference.
3. Even if we were, you should be posting this about Spain, Cameroon and Australia instead.
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0. Never start a list with 1.
That was intended to be a joke anyway, chill down.
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It's finally occurred to me that when it is a pattern, it is by definition inefficient and counter productive.
It became clear as I am surrounded by guys swearing by pattern this, pattern that!
If it's a good technique why do you need to impose it? Shouldn't it self evidently win everyone heart?
Nope because patterns are more like religion, used stubbornly in spite of contrary evidence.
I rather prefer the term technique. Technique is something you should learn first. Then you use it or not, whether it helps you or not. And its need is self evident. If it's not obviously needed there is no need to use or impose it either.
Plus one can improve upon a technique, whereas one cannot touch the holy pattern until a new software best seller fad comes along! 
Remark maybe it has nothing to do with pattern but more to do with stupid people imposing their rote learning on me... 
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I think your final observation is the correct one, I don't see patterns "imposing", being imposed by stubborn, hide bound old senior devs (ow that hurt) happens of course but I'm slowly relearning to be more flexible, honest.
Patterns are a tool, people become comfortable and productive with a toolset, changing reduces that and most of us are too lazy to do that willingly. Arguing over the merits of patterns is simply a form of entertainment, give the silly buggers some work to do, that generally shuts them up!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Mycroft Holmes wrote: Arguing over the merits of patterns is simply a form of entertainment
I wish it could be that!
Right now is do my righteous way or no way! 
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Yes, that's what seems to have happened, but they didn't start out that way.
At their best, Design Patterns simply give developers a set of common terminoloy for various techniques. They are not intended to limit developers' creativity and choices.
Think of the GOF book as a dictionary, not as a play book.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: Yes, that's what seems to have happened, but they didn't start out that way.
I think you nailed it there! 
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: They are not intended to limit developers' creativity and choices.
They don't. Things go terribly wrong when people who could not program their way out of a wet paper bag mistake them with fail-safe magic spells. Why think when you have a 'pattern' for everything?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
I hold an A-7 computer expert classification, Commodore. I'm well acquainted with Dr. Daystrom's theories and discoveries. The basic design of all our ship's computers are JavaScript.
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It should exist an anti pattern called "Pattern programming"
I'm also surrounded by developers swearing by pattern and I'm in an Agile team. For me there is an incompatibility between "pattern" and "Agility" because when you are Agile your architecture emerge and there is no reason to think in term of patterns or pre defined solutions.
Most important is not to know a pattern but to know the anti patterns.
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I had a good laugh reading that! 
But it's true! 
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]
Interesting link you here!
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B413 wrote: or me there is an incompatibility between "pattern" and "Agility" because when you are Agile your architecture emerge
This sounds like the classic misunderstanding of agile that goes roughly along the lines of 'since things change, we never need to design'. I work mostly on agile projects and I can tell you that design patterns are very important to make sure you develop in a way which can accommodate that change. If anything, getting a good framework design is more important in agile because it strongly affects your ability to adapt during development, and that's the essence of agile.
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BobJanova wrote: This sounds like the classic misunderstanding of agile that goes roughly along the lines of 'since things change, we never need to design'.
Agility (and Scrum) pretend architecture emerge. I also work mostly on agile projects and I'm agree that design is very important to make sure you develop in a way which can accommodate that change but design patterns are not the only way to design something.
I remember the time I had to argue against patterns that now are become anti pattern. And that the problem with patterns. When a pattern is not correct it's hard to argue against it because every book, every web page defend it until he became an anti pattern years latter... It is why I think it is more important to know its anti patterns. And I'm not talking about teams that don't really understand to goal of a pattern and that incorrectly implement it. And some patterns are so complex they don't respect the Keep It Simple and Stupid rule.
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We all got shafted by patterns when they became interview questions. Just search this site for a belly laugh.
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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