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23-Jan-23 3:12

Check out this MS Office365 graphic that shows how many people can use your Office365 (snapshot with highlights[^]). Confused | :confused:

So 6 people can have it, but only 5 people can simultaneously use it??? WTF | :WTF:

Rocket Science & Brain Surgery are easy. Licensing, on the other hand... Unsure | :~

RDM Jr23-Jan-23 3:38

RDM Jr

23-Jan-23 3:38

My reading of the license is that 6 people can use it, and each of those 6 people can be logged in on up to 5 devices simultaneously. I know that my family license for it is normally logged in on anywhere from 10 to 12 devices across 5 different users.

raddevus23-Jan-23 5:06

23-Jan-23 5:06

RDM Jr wrote:
My reading of the license is that 6 people can use it, and each of those 6 people can be logged in on up to 5 devices simultaneously.

Oh, ok, that makes a lot more sense. Hahaha...I'm definitely not a Rocket-Scientist/Brain-Surgeon. Laugh | :laugh:

Stepan Hakobyan23-Jan-23 3:32

Stepan Hakobyan

23-Jan-23 3:32

Did they increase member number, I remembered max 5 users. And every user can have the applications on 5 devices.

raddevus23-Jan-23 3:33

23-Jan-23 3:33

I'm not sure. It's just a very odd licensing to me. 6 people but only 5 devices.
And I think "simultaneously" means "installed" but maybe doesn't mean running concurrently.

Licensing, the new Rocket-Science/Brain-Surgery. Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

Nelek23-Jan-23 3:40

Nelek

23-Jan-23 3:40

raddevus wrote:
Rocket Science & Brain Surgery are easy. Licensing, on the other hand...

The first are scientific fields, the later was made because of lawyers... Unsure | :~

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

raddevus23-Jan-23 3:52

23-Jan-23 3:52

Nelek wrote:
The first are scientific fields, the later was made because of lawyers...

Oh my gosh! That explains it exactly!! So funny (and true and scary)

jmaida23-Jan-23 15:12

jmaida

23-Jan-23 15:12

#6 is the sys admin.
They don't need to use it
but only make sure the 5 that can do.

"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger

Nelek23-Jan-23 19:33

Nelek

23-Jan-23 19:33

I suppose you wanted to answer raddevous instead of answering me.

M.D.V.

jmaida24-Jan-23 11:15

jmaida

24-Jan-23 11:15

I wasn't responding to anyone particular. Just to the idea that license for 6 only allows 5 at once or something like that, In these chains of responses, I never am quite sure how the response order will go or who is responding to whom. I usually name them if that is my response is a particular person.

"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger

Nelek24-Jan-23 20:25

Nelek

24-Jan-23 20:25

jmaida wrote:
I never am quite sure how the response order will go or who is responding to whom.

The response will hang to the message where you click "Reply" and the answer to a message is indented one position deeper. Same indentation, same message as parent. It is as you were nesting "If" and "Else ifs"

M.D.V.

jmaida25-Jan-23 11:29

jmaida

25-Jan-23 11:29

Understood. Makes sense. I just lose track of who I am answering and what level they are.
Getting old eyes, I guess.
I'll be 76 this year.
Thanx for your response.

"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger

Reverse engineering - flowchart ?

den2k8823-Jan-23 20:58

den2k88

23-Jan-23 20:58

That's common with espensive software. The company has X licenses that can be used concurrently by all the authorized employees.

I had some nice quality time when the entire customer company was developing an ECU and we couldn't compile because all available GreenHills' licenses were used - even better when the IDE was open but the devs were doing entirely different things, or the devs in otehr timezones set the workstation in sleep (it didn't release the licenses) and went out for their night.

GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X

Member 1496877123-Jan-23 2:52

Member 14968771

23-Jan-23 2:52

When I wrote my first "for hire" program - in an assembly and no PC - part of the "for hire deal" was for the program to actually perform the requested task and BE DOCUMENTED.
Required documentation included (IBM) flowchart...

After much frustration muddling thru undocumented "free" C++ code example I am wondering if there is an
"free" application which analyzes the app and produces nice flowchart ?

Yes, I did ask Mrs Google... and got "Rhapsody"

IBM Documentation[^]

Any comments on "Rhapsody " would be appreciated.

Any other options ?

Cheers

CPallini23-Jan-23 3:12

CPallini

23-Jan-23 3:12

Cannot comment on such a software, since I never used it.
However, I strongly doubt you can obtain nice flow-charts from wild C++ code samples.
My two cents.

"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto

raddevus23-Jan-23 3:17

23-Jan-23 3:17

I use EnterpriseArchitect[^] (best / easiest (and cheapest) modeling software, but still has a learning curve) for all my UML diagram creation.

** You can point the tool at your DB Schema and it will create the database diagram. Very nice.
** You can point the tool at your C#, Java (many languages included) code and it will create Class diagrams.

It includes Activity diagrams (think flow diagrams) but there is no way to reverse engineer your code into an Activity diagram. I'm not sure if there is a software that does that type of thing. Maybe when ChatGPT grows up? Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

But there may be a tool out there I don't know.

Randor 23-Jan-23 4:29

Randor

23-Jan-23 4:29

Member 14968771 wrote:
"free" application which analyzes the app and produces nice flowchart ?

For reverse engineering linked binaries and generating a flow graph:

IDA Pro does graphing
Ghidra does graphing
Radare2 does graphing

I'm not actually sure if IDA Free generates graphs, I've never used the 'Free' version. But Ghidra and Radare2 both have what you are looking for.

trønderen23-Jan-23 5:56

trønderen

23-Jan-23 5:56

You sound as if you hope to avoid having anything all all to do with flowcharts - just leave the problem to the machine so you can forget it.

I think you will fail. First: If the job asks you to make a flowchart, it expects you to know how to do it - that is why they ask! If you can't do it yourself, all you can do is to ask a machine to do the job, then you are lacking the qualifications they are asking for.

Second: A flowchart is like pseudocode. It shows what you intend to program, the overall logic flow. It should not reflect all those tiny little jumps and turns you do in the coding, but reflect the 'main ideas' and structure. Maybe these automatic analyzers can e.g. do flow analysis as a technique to suggest 'essential' code structures, but I guess you must spend quite some time to learn and control its logic. Maybe you will have to provide hints and corrections to make it produce decent flowcharts at the appropriate level. My guess is that if you spend a similar effort on creating the flowcharts 'by hand', you will end up with a much more satisfying result.

Having a program to create flowcharts is like having a program to create pseudocode from your C/C++ source. All it can do is remove some details from the code; it cannot identify the intention of your constructs. Pseudocode and flowcharts are similar: They are meant to present the intention, what you attempt to build. They belong in the overall design/architecture phase of your project, not in the post-coding phase.

Now, I am surprised that anyone is asked to flowchart their code in year 2023. I haven't seen a single coding flowchart since (long) before the turn of the millennium. Actually, I have never since I completed my studies in 1983 been asked by any employer do draw a code flowchart. Pseudocode, at a high, 'overview' level, is a different thing. Much more maintainable, more informative. And data flow between modules and subsystems requires documentation.

Modern software is so complex that flowcharting it all at code level will fill multiple volumes, even for moderate size systems. 'Flow charts' at subsystem and module levels, along with data flow descriptions, is really a different animal from drawing a simple code loop as a diamond box with an arrow from one of the corners to the top of a rectangular box, the 'loop body', and an arrow from its bottom to the top of the diamond. (Is that the IBM style? I guess that it is something like that.) There is no benefit from expressing maybe five lines of plain code with boxes and arrows and labels and whathaveyou.

I suspect that this employer really do not want you to flowchart the code lines, but will look at your flowcharts how good you are at extracting the essentials, leaving details out but focusing on the overview that you might use for a first-time introduction to your program, e.g. for some other guy who will take over the code maintenance. The charts will reveal how well you understand the task, and how you understand it. A machine analyzer can't know that.

Member 1496877123-Jan-23 8:04

Member 14968771

23-Jan-23 8:04

I did not expect such in -depth analysis. and have to admit I did not analyze it much.
But since you eluded to many drawback of letting the machine do the dirty work -
my "example" is typical spaghetti code of 6 classes / objects inter-weaved
with "events " processing.
The various time consuming events are what driving me insane....

Generally a flowchart of the objects dependencies would be nice , that is all I am asking.
Than I can handle the "events"....

megaadam24-Jan-23 4:52

megaadam

24-Jan-23 4:52

You should read trønderen's response again:
Among other things:

trønderen wrote:
"It shows what you intend to program, the overall logic flow. It should not reflect all those tiny little jumps"

A mechanical tool will never summarize your intention, or the essence, of your algorithm. You must find it within your own capabilities to concisely illustrate your algorithm. What you should be looking for is a manual flow-chart tool that is practical to use. IMO.

"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"

kholsinger24-Jan-23 10:57

kholsinger

24-Jan-23 10:57

Isn't the problem that he did not write the code? I understood that he is trying to understand the connections inside existing code. He is seeking help to understand the general intention of a previous programmer.

megaadam24-Jan-23 4:58

megaadam

24-Jan-23 4:58

trønderen wrote:
I suspect that this employer really do not want you to flowchart the code lines, but will look at your flowcharts how good you are at extracting the essentials

I agree, but there is the chance that this is the kind of employer that no sane engineer wants to work for.

"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"