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charlieg wrote: Cloudstrike and likely Microsoft
[...]
charlieg wrote: if they survive
3 trillion dollars in market valuation (and only going down fractions of a percentage point since this started) says Microsoft will be okay.
I may agree with you about Cloudstrike however.
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yeah, did not make myself clear there. Cloudstrike is far more vulnerable. but this going to end up costing both billions.
Companies are just not putting up with this stuff. Experian settled out of court A LOT. It's the downside of collecting data in those cases.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote: Companies are just not putting up with this stuff
I think they do. No matter how big the disaster, things aren't changing.
Why fine the responsible companies when said fine simply gets filed as an operating expense? You wanna get serious about it, threaten jail time for the execs--those who sign off on things--and I think you'll suddenly see the needle move.
One can only dream...
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not fine, sue.
About 10 years ago, somebody got hacked - Target for sure, but toss in Experion, etc. Home Depot, Lowes and a lot of banks went after them for damages.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Right, but my point is, you sue a company, the company ends up paying a fine and moves on. Nothing changes.
If you start threatening to put C-level executives in jail, things would start changing overnight.
Extreme? Absolutely. But I don't see how things will ever improve otherwise.
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charlieg wrote: YOU DO NOT DESIGN IN A SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE FOR MISSION CRITICAL SYSTEMS.
I would consider that the first rule of Systems Engineering!
Will Rogers never met me.
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you would think that.
so many face palms. For those of our international community, the United States government by way of the FAA force airlines to cover passenger costs dues to travel disruptions. How this is on the airlines, only the government can come up with this. I happen to live in Atlanta where Delta Airlines is a "pillar" in the community. 80% of the flights out of the busiest airport in the world belong to Delta.
You think Delta is going to eat this? I think Cloudstrike just figured out they were mission critical. Oops. And the CEO will still get his bonus. If I were at cloudstrike, I'd be cashing in my stock options last week.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Never have, never will. It's a mania.
The only one you can trust with your stuff is you. If you can't even trust yourself, why would you trust someone else?
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I totally get what you're saying, but some people really can't be trusted with their own data. The ones who don't think there's anything wrong with "password1", that is.
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the point here is that they own that. It's their data, and if they lose it, well that's on them.
Idiots have pushed so much out to the cloud - some near mission critical and possibly more. Remember, it was microsoft setting up azure servers with databases and the process did not include setting permissions or changing the default password.
Have you heard the story about McDonald's not changing the bluetooth passwords on their ordering machines and menus?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote: Have you heard the story about McDonald's not changing the bluetooth passwords on their ordering machines and menus?
I can't say that I have, but already it sounds fun...
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yeah, teens found about it, mayhem 
There is also the story of a professor doing a security project. We wondered about ATMs. Doing a quick google, he came across the operating manuals of several ATM makers that dominated the market. In the manual was the default maintenance password. Out he went, followed instructions, and he was in maintenance mode for 10 of 10 test atms. Reading further, he redefined the value of each bin of bills to $1. Whereupon he withdrew "$500" dollars - in 20s. He took the 10k into the branch and asked to see the manager....
About 2 days later, you could not find the manual online unless you knew where to look.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote: About 2 days later, you could not find the manual online unless you knew where to look.
And probably they thought it was enough done to fix it.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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“Where to look…”
The Internet Way Back Machine?
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charlieg wrote: He took the 10k into the branch and asked to see the manager....
...and I'm better he got himself in trouble for pointing out the flaw. Happens all the time. Happened to me when I was a kid in high school (although nothing as high-stake as this)
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Also reminds me of someone trying to remove some copyrighted material from a github repo… just go back in the history!
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Yes but it's their data we are not their mothers
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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Sure.
And that's exactly how those big hosting companies get away with it, time and again. It's never their fault.
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Cp-Coder wrote: I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
If you have any amount of money in a bank, I'm afraid I have bad news for ya...
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One of the reasons I'm no longer working for a bank is because "someone up there" had the bright idea of putting all of our stuff in a cloud. I got out a year ago. Security concerns aside, I tried to warn my management that performance would be even worse -- our daily processing was already taking fifteen hours to complete, on physical servers in our datacenter.
The inmates are running the asylum.
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There are many more reasons, like prop trading, that can get you into trouble if you have a lot of your money in a bank. You're an unsecured creditor of the bank, and many countries have passed legislation saying that your money can be used to bail it out if it gets into trouble. Even if you use a responsible bank, you'll end up paying, in the form of either taxes or money printing, to bail out the banks that are "too big to fail".
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It does the soul good to see you guys talk about how crooked banking is. 1,000% agree btw... Fractional reserve lending is the bane of our economies.
Jeremy Falcon
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It was former Swiss law that the principals of a bank were liable, to the full extent of their personal wealth, for making depositors whole if the bank got into trouble. That law needs to return. So does the US Coin Act of 1793, under which the penalty for debauching the currency was death.
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Amen. There are more banksters that deserve stringing up than muderers. Most murders are "spur of the moment" things, while the bankksters do it deliberately, year after year.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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