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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do..
I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan.
Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time.
But not worth doing.
Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
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Run, Run Quickly, Never Look Back. Good advice I was given and ignored 
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If you are a permie, that's bad...
On the other hand, for a Contractor, a job like that is just Gravy - you can get paid for doing what you want, when you want to, and blame everyone else for not providing the information you need to do the job. Best of all, if it doesn't work at the end because the internal format is sufficiently arcane, you can just say "why didn't you tell me that at some point?" and start all over again...on the same pay scale... 
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My job title is "intern", I don't even make minimum wage.
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Ah.
That's a problem then...
Blackmail. Install cameras and use the footage for your own nefarious ends?
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 I had that job title once, but I already had 2 years experience with a major company when I walked in (that title helped them avoid some laws regarding the number of employees they had, and I was just part time).
By the time that job was over, I actually had to partially lead the team I was supposed to be interning with... 
My advice, take it for what it is, recognize that is not a place you want to work long term (it will kill your resume as you will not have relevant skills), but don't quit before you have another job lined up. It is real experience after all, and will separate you from the competition of other entry level folks.
And by all means, it is "intern", reminder, do not stay long term. Maybe 3 - 6 months? Keep your eyes open, good jobs are out there, just don't let a bad job drag you down.
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That's the important detail.
On one hand: If you have the flexibility to go someplace else I'd say run.
On the other hand: There's something to be said for getting mired in the worst, most disgusting loopyarchy of bureaucracy and spaghetti code with turf wars, petty fiefdoms and other miscellaneous psychosis as early in your career as possible. Because after you've seen that, you'll be able to handle everything.
On the 3rd hand (I'm not from around here): If what you're thinking about is leaving programming and IT and you have an alternative on your mind I say this: RUN SCREAMING. Don't make the mistake I made (which is not running screaming.)
But if you have some sort of nebulous "well coding is fun but there's not really anything else specific I'm balancing it against" then, well, go for it. Get up to your neck in corporate politics and nastiness.
My decades in the financial programming have me absolutely inoculated against any goofy power plays, "I keep my own source control on my workstation" and other assorted coding nightmares I will EVER encounter in my life.
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there are always new strains...
Do we weigh less at high tide?
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Ever heard the phrase "Feet, do your duty!" ?
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I always heard it as, "Feets don't fail me now!"
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Robert Ludwig wrote: I always heard it as, "Feets don't fail me now!"
Heh... either way, this is a situation that you need to run, not walk out of. No, not all programming jobs are this way but this is sure one that you don't wanna stick around for!
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OriginalGriff wrote: blame everyone else for not providing the information you need to do the job
AKA "The Nagy technique".
OriginalGriff wrote: on the triplesame pay scale
AKA "The Dalek technique"
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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I resemble that remark!
When I find myself in that position I shout early, I shout loud, I shout often. It is a great disturbance to the situpons when you want to do something and Retardon Doofus Numb-Brain III decides he won't give you all the relevant information.
speramus in juniperus
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Same here. Have you been reading my Troublemaker's Handbook? 
On a serious note, once you've worked in a truly crap organisation you can learn to smell organisational dysfunction a mile off and hopefully avoid the worst of it in the future.
Anna ![Rose | [Rose]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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It may not be that Doofus Numb-Brain III decides he won't give you all the relevant information, he/she may not have all the information. This may be one of those projects from hell where you figure it out and the customer tells you he likes it or not and what changes to make. Not good for your self esteem, but does provide job security (for a while), until the company and customer's funds dry up.
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Rage wrote: OriginalGriff wrote: on the triplesame pay scale
AKA "The Dalek technique"
For both Nagy and The Dalek, shouldn't that be "on the tipple pay scale"?
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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that would be quite unethical wouldn't you agree
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No, I wouldn't.
If you hire someone at an hourly (or daily, or weekly) rate, and give him insufficient information to produce exactly what you want, then it is your fault that what he produces is not what you wanted.
The alternative is for him to sit on his hands until you do provide the information while you pay him, and that is unethical - particularly if he doesn't know the info even exists.
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harold aptroot wrote: I<layer>t's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code.
Sounds like IBM's Websphere.
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As an intern, you have an opportunity to grow your skill set, show your worth and document something that was previously undocumented.
Also, since you are a member of CodeProject you have an interest in writing code.
Take the high road, do the best job you can do, and learn from the experience.
Others have, and will, tell you to run... face adversity in the face and push forward.
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Grow my skill set? Show my worth? I think this is an other job that you're talking about here.. one that I might like to have.
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Dealing with some level of stupid/insane is part of any job. It sounds like your internshipenslavement will be earning you advanced certification in it. 
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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If you are working at a place where you don't like it, unless you know the situation will change or you can move to a better position, then leave the company. It is that simple. If you want/need to find something else before leaving, that is some you should consider.
Otherwise, I also think you should try to improve yourself with what was given to you. By doing that, it will be their loss when losing you if they don't value your skills.
There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure. Colin Powell
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Experience is always worth something, even if the experience is torture.
I say hang in there, you'll have a better resume at the end. Since you're an intern they really shouldn't be expecting much, and you haven't got much to lose. It sounds like they want you to do a salaried programmer's job while being paid as an intern and that sucks, but it's a stepping stone to something better. You may as well take advantage of the opportunity to gain experience, even if it's a pretty lousy opportunity.
Having said that, as soon as you can find a real salaried job get the hell out of there.
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While I was in school, I was contacted by the local branch of a corporation. Between my "internship" job, and getting married, I ended up quitting school (bad move resume wise, but it's worked ok for me).
When I finally left their sorry butts, I was shocked to see I'd spent 9 years there. After I quit in September, I ended up making more from them in the rest of the year (as an outside contractor) than my previous annual salary.
I did the consulting thing for them and others for a few years, and because of too many details to get into here (mostly involving money and insurance), I ended up back working for them directly.
After an initial period where they allowed me to fix all the things my replacements had broken, we proceeded to race as to whether they were going to fire me (I was a troublemaker), or I was going to quit for another 10 years. Finally, they blinked and gave me my severance package a few months before closing the division.
I value the experience greatly. As some have stated, it taught me to deal with any insane politics I can ever encounter. Also, when starting my other businesses I'm in now (programming, direct mail, antiques, etc), it has been an invaluable guide to business.
All I have to do is ask myself "If my former company were faced with this situation, what would they do?"
I then do the exact opposite of that. Works really well.
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