|
That is what was initially reported. But the general discussion here is safety. Considering the size of container ships, you would think there would be some redundancy in their systems. I'm looking forward to the NTSB report.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
|
|
|
|
|
The few redundancies in place also failed in this case. Part of the problem was the lag time for those redundancies to come online.
You can read the NTSB preliminary report here[^].
|
|
|
|
|
Neither plane was landing. They were both back-taxing up the runway, the PanAm after the KLM. The PanAm was still on the runway, looking for their turn-off in dense fog when the KLM started its takeoff roll. The PanAm saw the KLM was rolling and desperately tried to turn-off the runway, but it was too late.
Ultimately, as captain of the KLM, the final responsibility came down to van Zanten. He failed to verify his runway was clear before starting his takeoff roll, knowing the PanAm was behind him on the runway. His FO even questioned whether the PanAm was clear of the runway when the throttles were pushed up. van Zanten dismissed the concern and continued with the takeoff roll anyway.
Communication was a serious problem in this disaster. Controllers and pilots on the same frequency can only talk one at a time and in only one direction at a time. If two people transmit at the same time, chances are really high everyone will not hear anything except noise, called a heterodyne. In this crash, the PanAm and the controller (I think!) both transmitted at the same time just before the KLM started its takeoff roll, hiding critical information from van Zanten.
This crash resulted in reworking all communications between pilots and controllers, standardizing phraseology, and overhauled cockpit crew culture, creating the field of "crew resource management."
Air traffic and controller workload has only increased since that time, increasing the strain on the half-duplex radio communications we still use today, resulting in more mis- and missing communications. Today, there's over 1200 runway incursions every year, like what you described. Until we come up with a better, high-capacity way of communicating with planes, the problem is only getting worse.
|
|
|
|
|
Dave Kreskowiak wrote: Neither plane was landing.
Thanks. I stand corrected. Just saw an animation on Youtube, and is as what you describe.
|
|
|
|
|
It's far more dangerous getting to the airport. Don't sweat it. Up until Boing screwed up (deliberate typo), I was doing some reading on air traffic safety statistics. Considering the growth of air travel over the last 20 years, the safety record is simply incredible. Not only have procedures been updated, there is more safety equipment out there. Most airports have ground tracking radar to monitor their tarmacs and taxi ways.
I live north of Atlanta and our airport is the busiest in the world. We have 5 huge runways, all parallel. Not too much cross runway traffic, but aircraft do have to exit the runway to the concourses. So, it's a taxi situation. It is a finely orchestrated dance but predictable. My house is under the northern approach for the airport. During the evening, I see hundreds of a/c descending and departing from the area.
I flew into Kansas City years ago, and it scared the living daylights out of me.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
|
|
|
|
|
charlieg wrote: Considering the growth of air travel over the last 20 years, the safety record is simply incredible.
Nice to know.
charlieg wrote: Atlanta and our airport is the busiest in the world
Exiting the runway to the concourses, is indeed time-critical. Have seen one such intersection at Zurich Airport.
My first flight was in November 1996, in India, just a couple of weeks after this - 1996 Charkhi Dadri mid-air collision - Wikipedia [^]. Was holding on to dear life throughout my flight. Now, after many years of flying, fear of flying has reduced.
|
|
|
|
|
If we'd put the same effort into car and roads safety, there would not be any car accidents.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
|
|
|
|
|
New all-optical approach to revolutionise night vision technology | TMOS[^]
For these who wish a synopsis : Australian Laboratory invented thin film from lithium niobate meta-surface which provides same function as bulky night vision technology. Can merely be placed onto surface of one's glasses bingo presto voila instant night vision + is transparent to visual spectrum.
|
|
|
|
|
Sign me up. Thanks for the synopsis.
As it happens, I was just at the eye Doctor's and I may soon be in the market for new glasses.
|
|
|
|
|
It's not as if "The Chinese" don't have their own R&D...
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
The shortest horror story: On Error Resume Next
|
|
|
|
|
Wordle 1,081 5/6
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜🟩🟨⬜
⬜🟩🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
|
|
|
|
|
Wordle 1,081 2/6*
⬜🟩🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
That was lucky, very lucky!
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
|
|
|
|
|
Wordle 1,081 4/6
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
|
|
|
|
|
Wordle 1,081 5/6*
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜🟩⬜⬜🟨
🟩🟩⬜⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have. -Anon
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. -Frederick Nietzsche
|
|
|
|
|
⬜🟩⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜🟩⬜⬜
⬜🟩🟩⬜⬜
⬜🟩🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
|
|
|
|
|
Wordle 1,081 4/6
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
🟨🟨🟨🟩⬜
⬜🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
|
|
|
|
|
Wordle 1,081 4/6
⬛⬛🟩🟨⬛
⬛🟩🟩🟩⬛
⬛🟩🟩🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
|
|
|
|
|
Wordle 1,081 5/6*
⬛⬛🟩⬛⬛
⬛⬛🟩⬛⬛
⬛🟩🟩⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
|
|
|
|
|
Wordle 1,081 4/6
⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟨🟨🟩⬛⬛
⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Jeremy Falcon
|
|
|
|
|
What do you call the white line on the outer edge of the road when there is no kerb? (leftpond: curb)
I know what I (and my firefighting colleagues) call it, but I'm interested in the wider world's usage.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
|
|
|
|
|
|
That's what we call it, but I'm pretty sure I didn't know the term until about 20 years ago.
And I'd been a licensed driver for 40 odd years by then.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
|
|
|
|
|
In my state its generally considered a no-passing line. Snow line would not make sense in many US states.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
|
|
|
|
|
Huh? and huh?
I was referring to the line along the EDGE of the road, not a centre line.
I never mentioned snow.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
|
|
|
|
|
I meant white line on side of road. If the side of the road is paved shoulder, you can use it stop temporarily (car breaks down, etc). The white separates the main lane from the shoulder (if any). This means one cannot use that part of the road for passing unless exiting the road or the road is temporarily block. States may vary on these rules. Sorry I mixed up fog and snow. Doh.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
