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The (wpf) UI designer is definitely horrible.
And wpf does have a steeeep learning curve (trust me, 'been there). The funny thing is, to fully appreciate it, you need to use it (and actually compare it to Winforms) - and while at the beginning, you'll curse a lot (I did ), when you start to "get" it, you'll use it for any non-trivial UI.
The more you'll delve into it, the more you'll love it (granted, you'll still hate the UI designer ).
Two easy examples: animations, pixel shaders (i.e., Effects). When you actually start understanding how layout works in wpf, you'll be able to create controls that can simply blow your mind (which would be really really hard to implement in Winforms)!
Best,
John
P.S. If (just if ) you want to learn WPF, I recommend "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" - a lot of things don't seem to make any sense in WPF, until explained. Again, been there
-- Phot-Awe - Find the Photos you Love - FAST!
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Agreed, on all counts. I've been using WPF for ten years for UI on our products. Once you 'get it', you can do wonderfully useful things in your UI that would be next to impossible without it.
And yes, the WPF designer is worthless. Between constant crashes and its incessant need to insert absolute constants everywhere, it's far easier to hand-code XAML.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Agree
__________________
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now.
© 2009, Rex Hammock
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I agree that the learning curve is quite steep and there still are things that you cannot do in the designer or XAML (or at least not intuitively). I have, from time to time, built entire controls with children in the code so I don't have XAML documents 1000+ lines long and nested enough to require a lot of horizontal scrolling. However, I still prefer it to WinForms.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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I'm sure it's Very true. Because all the experienced WPF developers say the same.
Full Reset
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Winforms isn't ugly in my opinion. WPF is, though!
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant Anonymous
- The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine Winston Churchill, 1944
- Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. Mark Twain
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I concur. I tried, really tried, to use WPF but it produced such an ugly and clunky UI that i implemented what I wanted in WinForms - quickly and easily with very smooth and beautiful results - and a few fancy effects while I was at it - also easily implemented and debugged as necessary.
Bring back Winforms! I was about to say "All is Forgiven!" but there is nothing really to forgive.
I think the "Winforms is Ugly" came from Microsoft Marketing Bozos to enable adoption of the terrible WPF!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Maybe you should be using this[^] for your UI work.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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I've been looking for something like this!
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Thanks to all for not mentioning 'MVVM' ... wow ... rare.
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WPF compared to winforms feels half baked and inconsistent; documentation is, poor and I spend more time searching the web on how to do something so simple in winforms (like a checked listbox) that I'm not enjoying development anymore.
UWP you can at least use win2d and get a graphics object like the GDI+ in winforms and draw natively when you need.
I'm not saying winforms is perfect, and not everything in WPF is bad, I can just do way more work in a single day with winforms than WPF.
It feels like the ones who created xaml looked at the web and tried to copy how that worked, to bring web devs to the desktop.
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Only if you are doing something relatively simple.
Any form that requires execution-time reconfiguration gets real messy in WinForms, while in WPF, all it requires in changing bound parameter values. Before I was retired, I did this all the time.
__________________
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now.
© 2009, Rex Hammock
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I worked in industrial control, my software had several hundred install locations, all included run-time end user customization: everything from user color themes to what data point was shown where and how it was formatted, and it was all done in winforms with help from GDI+ to a remote computer dishing out WCF, I'm not even sure how I could pull off the same thing under WPF.
the only thing I liked so far about WPF is the lack Hwin handles on everything, and it does feel less OS heavy, but I still prefer the flexibility that winforms plus GDI+ give me on run-time display tweeking.
But just like development languages, to each their own in preferences. C# vs VB.net or windform vs. WPF; it doesn't matter to the end user it it gets the job done.
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Prior to my forced retirement, I was working in a mental health care setting with a very limited budget. Third-party controls were out of the question, unless they were free and available with source code. This meant that, if I wanted a nonstandard control, I usually had to create it. With WinForms, this was a continuing pain.
With WPF, much of the needed functionality was built in via data bindings. I could often do things with an existing control using a data binding and a few lines of code in a backend module that would have required a whole separate project to create a new control in WinForms.
My boss at the time did not favor my approach, but as the sole programmer and an ever increasing list of new code to be written and older code to maintain, coding speed was important.
__________________
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept that there are some things I just can’t keep up with, the determination to keep up with the things I must keep up with, and the wisdom to find a good RSS feed from someone who keeps up with what I’d like to, but just don’t have the damn bandwidth to handle right now.
© 2009, Rex Hammock
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same boat here; was a single developer with no budget for 3rd party controls. but I'm going to guess you had mostly database work that made data binding your go to. so yes WPF does make that easier than winform's data binding.
the stuff i dealt with in industrial control had no databases what so ever, and had no need for binding; it was mostly generic tags that the live IO was converted from; temperatures, pressures, on/off values... each tag had a unique id.
Winforms was extremely efficient for what i used it for, it's a bit of a different world than most software development.
I'm not saying the way you did it is wrong, quite the opposite; you worked with a technology stack that worked best for you.
winforms worked best for me. now I'm at a place that uses WPF as it's main product because binding makes more sense here. when ever I go back to dealing with non-database applications, I usually default back to winforms, because I have direct ability to draw what i need directly to the surface of a control; UWP also let's me do this, but I really don't like the store-app model for distributing my software.
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What is the name of the procedure by which a word, or a phrase, changes its meaning and/or context over a long period of time?
I'm not talking about the individual words, or the individual phrases, which have changed their meaning over long periods of time.
I'm trying to find the word which describes that process itself.
Google, Bing, Yahoo, OneLook, etc., don't know either. It is not the word "etymology". It is not the phrase "Semantic Change"; although that phrase comes closer to what I'm trying to find.
There is a word, or a phrase, which I have seen before. It describes (perfectly) the process of words and phrases changing their meaning over time.
Could someone with verbal skills which are superior to my own (not asking much there) suggest a few words or a phrase or two?
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Amelioration is just one type of Semantic change - Wikipedia[^]
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Amelioration means making things better, rather than different.
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Correct, it seems to stem from the French word "meilleur".
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I would use "evolution" as a root word for what you are looking for.
A language evolves.
Meanings evolve.
The evolution of the use of words.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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That's the first thing that came to my mind as well.
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It is called Semantic change - Wikipedia[^]
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Neologism maybe? Now a verb for this I'm not able to find.
It does not solve my Problem, but it answers my question
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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C-P-User-3 wrote: Could someone with verbal skills which are superior to my own (not asking much there) suggest a few words or a phrase or two?
Dumbing down.
Particularly employed by politicians and mainstream news media.
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Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
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