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Good morning to all of you that replied to this.
I appreciate all that you have responded with here. But quite frankly I am well aware of planning, budgets, testing etc. If I had been in charge of this, I would have started working in all this two or more years ago. But what is, is.
Nor do I need suggestions on updating the HTML or JS or frameworks, etc. All of that is pretty straightforward.
What I was looking for was any information from those people who have dealt with those truly IE specific technology issues when moving to a modern browser like Edge-chromium.
Things like, has anyone else had to deal with the - - noframemerging issue and what you did to overcome this. Or replacing the IE specific WebBrowser control in a WinForms app with the WebView2 control, especially when the WebView2 control does not support IE Mode.
Maybe this is too technical for the Lounge. In that case contact me directly. I can get all of these together and put out an article here for anyone else dealing with this (giving credit where credit is due).
Thanks again...
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I have had it with cumbersome development environments!
From now on I'm going to use the TIC-80 fantasy-console[^] which has everything for developing retro-games and is only a few MB's in size.
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My company's security software blocked me from seeing this potentially awesome fantasy console. They obviously know what is best for me, and I can only assume that means not playing retro-games while I am supposed to be working.
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Bummer, I tried out the online version of TIC-80 and think it's great, especially for beginners who want to learn game programming. There are also lots of examples and tutorials.
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Edit: Someone suggested I take an e-ink display to a paint store! Eureka!
I added CMYK, HSL, and HSV color models to GFX, the first two of which are great for printing because they more or less reflect the behavior of ink in terms of how you locate a color within a color space.
This is also great for color e-paper displays which actually use ink on their display surface, but there I am running into an issue that has nothing to do with programming.
I need to color match properly. Worse, realistically I need to do so with LCD colors as a reference since e-ink can't mix colors.
I have no idea how to get the CYMK or HSL values for a particular e-ink color. I suppose it comes down to human vision but I don't really trust my eye. I'm not an artist or anything like that and I have a better ear than an eye.
Right now I've just estimated the ink values in RGB space but I'd like to get more precise with the palettes for my particular displays.
meh.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
modified 15-Apr-22 7:33am.
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Just a thought. If you're trying to estimate a match visually, you might be better off working in a color space like HSL or HSV, then convert to RGB.
"A shade darker/lighter/cooler/warmer" sort of adjustments I found easier in that space. I guess tweaking one knob at a time rather than trying to juggle three.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
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Yeah, that's what I'm doing, but I need to match e-ink to the proper CMYK or HSL value (a pantone # would work too) - see my edit. Someone suggested a simple solution - take the thing to a paint store. =)
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Quote: I have no idea how to get the CYMK or HSL values for a particular e-ink color You can measure them with e.g. Datacolor Spyder?
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Never heard of one of those. I'll look it up. Thanks!
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Do those work with non-emissive displays?
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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Very good point, thank you!
Some of these units can be used for printer profiling, so I would say yes. But that is more a guess.
Note: OP's question triggered me to search for e-ink 'profiling'. Until now I did not find usefull information. I think because profiling on such 'primitive' devices is not really easy/usefull.
modified 15-Apr-22 9:38am.
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You get yourself involved in tasks that are VERY different from anything I've done professionally. It sounds very interesting (and also very frustrating at times).
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That's a very accurate summation. The frustration is worth it for the victory at the end.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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My apologies if any of this comes across as pedantic.
You're venturing into color handling areas that can be quite involved mathematically. There are also a lot of trade-offs and subjective considerations. The most fundamental is the realization that color is perceptual, and an absolute color standard does not exist.
Let's use Code Project orange as an example. Chris uses a certain RGB value (224,137,0) in his HTML/CSS that looks orange to him. That's what's sent to user devices. If you were to sit a dozen of those devices side-by-side and measure the color spectrum for the displayed 'orange' using a spectrophotometer, you'd get different values for each device. You'd probably get different values even you tested a dozen of the same model of iPhone. If you printed the page on a color printer, you'd see the same thing. You would get different measurements depending upon the printing technology, the paper, lighting, etc. You eventually have a gamut[^], a set of colors realizable on a device based on its inputs.
There are any number of schemes for matching a 'reference' color definition to a device, based on a color matching mechanism like Pantone[^] between a reference and the device's gamut. As an implementor you eventually reach a point where you choose a methodology whose results are "good enough" based on your device's capabilities, the color measurement data you have available, and customer requirements.
Software Zen: delete this;
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That's basically what I'm trying to get at - good enough. The issue is e-paper displays. The ink color for "red" isn't necessarily pure RGB red. I just want to get those matched a little closer. If I can get pantone codes for them that should do it.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Quote: isn't necessarily pure RGB red There is no pure RGB red, one needs to define first the primaries of the space! RGB is an often missused therm. There are lot of RGB spaces (even CIE XYZ is one of them). Not 100% error free but a good reference with good background information: Welcome to Bruce Lindbloom's Web Site[^]
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CIE XYZ is a separate color model than RGB in my code. RGB indicates a 3 coordinate space, mapping R, G, and B to a color space. When I say pure RGB red, i do not mean visually pure. I mean a pixel with red coordinate set to max, and the others set to min. I hope that clarifies what I mean.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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CIE XYZ is one of the rgb spaces. I'm very shure about it, it is my daily work
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That might be the case. I'm simply talking about my code. In my code, what's primary is the *binary footprint*
In my RGB color model it goes like this in terms of bits - say for 16 bit:
RRRRRGGGGGGBBBBB
Like that.
CIE XYZ would have a different binary layout, ergo it's a different color model in my code.
Now, it is possible to represent that in my code, but it would require conversion from the RGB model to the CIE XYZ model.
My code frankly, does not care about your daily work. My code cares about interfacing with devices that expect pixels in a particular format.
And in terms of usability, the user is not going to care that CIE XYZ is part of the RGB umbrella of color spaces, since there is no concept of an umbrella or family of color spaces in my code. My code identifies a color model by, and only by the names of the individual channels that make up a pixel.
When a user declares a cie_xyz_pixel<24> the only thing that effectively matters where the rubber meets the road is can it be converted to RRRRRGGGGGGBBBBB? That's it.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
modified 15-Apr-22 12:32pm.
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You mention a lot of times RGB. Which spaces please? There is no one only RGB space...
Here some of them:
Adobe RGB (1998)
AppleRGB
Best RGB
Beta RGB
CIE RGB
ColorMatch RGB
Don RGB 4
ECI RGB
Ekta Space PS5
NTSC RGB
PAL/SECAM RGB
ProPhoto RGB
SMPTE-C RGB
sRGB
Wide Gamut RGB
All these spaces are well defined by the light source and the respective primaries
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Look, I get, but we're talking apples and oranges.
I AM TALKING ABOUT THE BINARY FOOTPRINT OF THE COORDINATE SPACE BEING USED.
I don't know how I can be more clear.
Maybe this will help. Color model != Color space.
I deal in color models. Just replace space with model wherever I used it and maybe that will end this. But it's not productive.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Ok. But the binary footprint leeds to wrong solutions. Enough for now
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No it doesn't.
It leads to exactly the expected solution when the target is an LCD monitor whose controller chip deals in that very same pixel format.
So "wrong solutions" is not correct. It depends on what you're doing. I support other color models like CMYK, and HSL so you can map those, but they get mapped in the end, to an LCD controller chip, or to an e-paper controller chip.
At the end of the day, that's what my code cares about.
This is not photoshop. This is not a print shop. This is not full fledged graphic design package coded to run on a machine with 80kB of RAM.
It's about perspective.
Now I'm done for real.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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I can't resist to answer again... E.g. sRgb to CMYK is nothing defined. Don't believe too much to the trash you find on www, these scenarios do not end in any successful results for praxis.
Now I try to definitively be silent
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let's continue this most excellent thread until the internet blows up.
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