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CDP1802 wrote: math is logical I've never seen anything that made less sense than math...
CDP1802 wrote: how someone can get so emotional about a simple logical thing as a math test Me too, but math really gets me angry, sad and desperate... I can do it for a while, but when I have to study for weeks before a test it really stresses me out to a point where it's really not worth the trouble any more. Math is really the only thing that I know of that does that to me.
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I've encountered two situations, one, where the math PhD's came up with an incredibly complicated algorithm for processing multispectral data (took on the order of minutes to process 6 frames of multispectral video) which, when I realized what they were doing, I converted all the FFT and bullshit into a real time lookup table transformation.
The second was again thrown at the PhD's, this time to determine pass/fail modes in a switch ring redundancy network (stuff put into communication satellites to ensure that when a high power amplifier fails, you can switch to a spare, and it gets complicated because you're not switching electrical signals, you're switching radio waves via waveguides and whatnot, so there's physical space/weight limitations), anyways, the PhD's were trying to solve this for years. After thinking (yes, just thinking) about the problem for a couple weeks, I realized that there were simple topology rules that could be used to analyze a network. Granted, it still took horsepower, but I delivered a solution (that was 20 years ago) that is still in place and has evolved into a multi-threaded analysis application that solves for trillions of switch combinations and failure combinations in realistic time (a few hours) of churning.
Funny how in both cases, what was thought to be a math problem turned out to be not a math problem, but a "think about the problem" exercise.
So yeah, math is definitely needed for certain things, but the #1 rule is, just because you have a math degree hammer, not everything is a math degree nail.
If it helps, math is a beautiful universal truth. Think of math as discovering the truth of something.
Marc
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s - stick that on the end of everywhere you've put math and you'll be fine.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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I'm not going into an arguement with you. Simply grab an encyclopaedia to see I did nothing wrong. In fact, I'm pretty skillful in both British and American. In my defence, we're much more America oriented here and my browser even marks British as incorrect, which is, of course, a wrong analysis. In this post I'll honour your favourite language though. But please don't criticise my inability to memorise all these minor differences. I'm using my best judgement, so stop quarelling. Despite my American writing I still prefer metres over inches. I'm glad we had this dialogue
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Sander Rossel wrote: In two weeks I'd have a math test.
If I were you, I'd have a go at Maths. It's real good stuff and exists outside of the USA.
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Michael Martin wrote: and exists outside of the USA. Unfortunately, because that's where I am!
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Hmm, given that Mathematics is one of those subjects I like the most, does that imply you, Sir Sander of Rossels, are my enemy?
You have just been Sharapova'd.
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I'm guessing Blofeld was pretty good at math too
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I needed to use algebra to design the fencing around my backyard garden so as not to waste wood and still look good. One also needs to know how to take the modulo of a polynomial to compute keys in encryption. And then there is the need to compute the degree of non-orthogonality of magnetic and electric fields when designing a flying saucer.
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On the other computing the time taken for a piano to fall from a third floor balcony to the ground is probably not your best bet if you happen to be underneath it at the time!
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Bruce Patin wrote: I needed to use algebra to design the fencing around my backyard garden so as not to waste wood and still look good I hire people for that!
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Sander Rossel wrote: LaTeX editor
Is that Sean's latest outfit?
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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I love math, but can't say I ever learned to love LaTeX. I understand how it was useful back when my main editor was vi, but these days with editors like Word that just let you see what you're doing, I don't really get the point.
That said, when I do have to work on a TeX document (because of whom I'm working with or conference format or whatever), I've found LyX to be a good WYSIWYG editor. There's definitely a learning curve, but the documentation is good, it's free, and I've always managed to get the formatting I want eventually.
Good luck with the blog and I hope you learn to enjoy the math. Once you know the math enough to trust it, it's a great comfort to be able to tell yourself "mathematically this is right, so there must just be a mistake in the code."
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The problem with mathematics is the abstract presentation as opposed to practical applications. For proof, look at any Wikipedia page on statistical tests. The mathematicians have edited them so that they are absolutely correct and absolutely useless for anyone wanting to actually code and execute a T-test or a simple ANOVA. My greatest "Aha!" moment came in grad school when I realized that the integral calculus that I pounded my head into as an undergrad was really just determining the area under a curve, and that one could accomplish the same thing with a sheet of graph paper, a pair of scissors, and a good scale (draw the curve, cut it out and weigh it, cut out a 4x4 block of squares and weight it, then calculate the ratio -- you've now integrated the curve using simple algebra and up yours Sir Isaac!).
Oh, and LyX is excellent for typesetting equations.
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Carney Four wrote: I've found LyX to be a good WYSIWYG editor Thanks, I'll certainly look into that!
Carney Four wrote: Good luck with the blog Thanks again!
Carney Four wrote: I hope you learn to enjoy the math I hope so too...
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When hiring for computer science positions in the Engineering field, math and artistic talent are the two most important things we look at. No math talent, no artistic talent, no interest!
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Artistic talent is normally a good indication of creativity. That and good math skills are what we've found yields the best software developer / programmer. If I require a "plugger", I can hire an Engineer.
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bwallan wrote: Artistic talent is normally a good indication of creativity. That and good math skills are what we've found yields the best software developer / programmer What kind of application will this person code?
And is a BSc or MSc degree required to be hired?
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Pretty much anything an Engineer can think up for which to write software. Everything from converting a sophisticated Excel spreadsheet to a corporate application to writing a simulation model for economics or some process in the Oil & Gas industry.
We normally hire B.Sc. Computer Science grads and offer funding to complete a M.Sc. if the individual wishes to go that route. But a smart, creative B.Sc. individual can work wonders!
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bwallan wrote: But a smart, creative B.Sc. individual can work wonders! Any smart individual with a passion can work wonders
Formal schooling means nothing to me.
Well, it means you've been able to stand school for a couple of years, which is actually bad enough as it is.
Unfortunately school means a lot to other people (like you) though
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Formal schooling means the world! It means a person has the capacity to think and a solid knowledge base as a foundation on which to add experience. I've fired far too many "experts" that think experience is the total package. It isn't!
As for your "couple of years", a university degree is four years. A couple of years indicates a technical school certificate which means close to nothing in our organization(s). It might be good for an automobile mechanic, electrician or plumber but not for computer science!
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bwallan wrote: Formal schooling means the world! It means a person has the capacity to think and a solid knowledge base as a foundation on which to add experience. I guess I have to agree with you there... I know very few people who haven't enjoyed formal schooling, but could still be considered "smart" or "bright". Although I know very few people who haven't had formal schooling, mostly some old folks.
And in the Netherlands we have 'levels' of schooling (kind of like attending school at low, medium or high difficulty) and there's usually a clear distinction in "smarts" between people from different levels of education.
Of course I can't say if better schooling makes smarter or if smarter people attend better schools
That said, proper formal education does not guarantee a good programmer.
I know people with a university degree in programming, physics or maths, yet they just don't seem to understand programming.
bwallan wrote: experience is the total package. It isn't! Couldn't agree more!
I've worked with a "senior developer with over eight years of experience" and we got into a lot of arguments because I surpassed him after a year of experience (which, of course, he didn't like).
I should add I was really a better programmer after a year, coming from zero, and this isn't me being an arrogant jerk.
The problem is he had been doing the same thing for eight years, which doesn't equal eight years of experience.
I see that a lot. Working for x time in a certain field does not give you x time experience.
Currently I have over five years of experience and some formal schooling (studying at Open University, where, as you can read, I'm stuck on maths).
Additionally I got me some Microsoft certificates (to make up for that lack of formal schooling) in C# and SQL Server.
I wonder, based on that, would you (purely theoretical) consider me for a job interview?
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Sander,
We only hire IT personnel with at least a B.Sc. in Computer Science and a strong indicator for artistic talent. We want a "creative/intelligent" person with a formal Computer Science education; someone to whom we can assign a project, and have him/her design a solution and carry it through to a final application (or system). Add the experience gained from varied development projects and you have a powerful development team.
Maybe we are being narrow-minded? But in the 40+ years I've been in this business this approach has worked out the best for us and people we've hired, some of whom have been with us for 30+ years.
bwa
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