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Message Closed
modified 19-Sep-18 11:21am.
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Google is your friend.
Well...actually, no. Google is the enemy. But you know what I mean.
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It's also much faster than you think. Don't fall prey to the late 80's early 90s "but it's a scripting language" bias
Python is slow because it's hashes all the way down, not because it's a scripting language.
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You're missing my point. It's NOT slow.
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Quote: unless I'm coding completely drunk
Be realistic, how often does coding while not completely drunk actually happen?
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -- Groucho Marx
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I work in Python for a living. It's a cool life. Websites and web services.
(running the app to find syntax errors is not good communication),
You need a better IDE.
(real OOP, real functional programming, real lambda functions, etc.),
Python has "real OOP", and as everything is an object, "real functional programming" is also a thing.
What do you mean by "real lambda functions"? x = sorted(x, key=lambda member: member.value)...
(Tk and their ilk is just gross for creating desktop UI's),
wxPython is a fantastic wrapper over wxWidgets, a native widget C++ library.
That said, distributing Python is a pain in the neck, and it's really not what you should be doing with Python. Stick to servers, where you control the metal.
(JetBrains IDE's are pretty good, but still not the Visual Studio experience, and intellisense / autocomplete with languages like Python are pretty lame)
Have you used PTVS? It's fantastic.
the number of psychological problems should be minimal (the split personalities of dynamic typing come to mind.)
Static typing is not a strength. It's just a different way of doing things.
To more broadly answer your question; "why Python?"
It's fun. It's easy. There's a huge wealth of fantastic resources. Within 8 minutes, with a clean linux machine or even mac, I can have an immensely powerful web framework running and serving database-backed pages.
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Agreed. .NET and C# are where I've invested my 10,000 hours, but over the last year I've had the pleasure of working primarily in Python, and I love it. It is very readable, especially if you follow the "pythonic" way of doing things -- keeping it simple.
I still prefer it more for "scripty" things, because it is interpreted, but that's just my preference.
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I've not used Python but I do appreciate a full and complete answer to someone's arguments. Well done.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -- Groucho Marx
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Marc,
The easiest answer I have is that MSFT is too quick to throw out their old technology, and to simply stop supporting it. Most .NET developers I know have 3 versions of the IDE on their machines in order to keep some project working.
And this is not a new construct. When MSFT decided 32 bit was the way to go, they stopped improving the 16 bit C++ compiler. We had to get BC++ to compiler the 16 bit version of the same code. It seems to just be how they operate.
Don't get me started about the GUI dev changes of the last 5 years. Yes, they show more progress, but at a higher price.
On the other hand, we have 15 year old PHP, Oracle, Linux servers running (in AWS now) almost unchanged, and currently maintained (running current revs).
If I have to put something on a shop floor, with custom hardware, etc. I prefer Linux. Especially if we need 30-100 of them, and we have to consider license fees, and updates that might break things!
The support cost of windows machines used to HIDE the operating system, and simply control something is the reason, I believe, for the "bigotry". But it is not unfounded. We also ship many systems out with the development tools installed and operational. So we can tweak something locally. What would the fees be for doing that with MSFT?
Free software is much cheaper if you deliver hardware, configured, vs. a CD of compiled software.
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I feel a similar pain. We've been a MS shop for the last 25 years, but because I'm the last remaining C# dev here, and they've bought two companies with expertise only in Ruby and PHP and are combining our teams, our new CIO wants to do FOSS when we rebuild our web site(s) this year. And of course, the other devs won't even consider C# and .NET because, you know, Microsoft is the wrong religion.
To me, PHP is like stepping back 20 years into the coding nightmare of classic ASP. Ruby is better, but still feels amateurish compared to C#. The IDEs and tools do not have a professional feel and lack a lot of the functionality found in VS, the way to add features and configure things are convoluted, Linux-style, so that they can't really be defined as RAD tools, IMO. I'd prefer Python over PHP or Ruby, but that's a big no-no 'cause they want to narrow down our tech usage.
<sigh> Just eight more years until retirement.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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A few years ago I really, really, finally had to learn web technologies after spending most of my career in the *Nix, C/C++ and Informix world.
I was utterly horrified to learn that the internet is essentially cobbled together with a mish-mash of scripting languages. In some software houses its like the Wild West! In the end you have to be responsive to the job market but a little part of my programming soul died when I had to work with Perl on Apple Macs.
If you have to make the transition into a new environment like Python, then so be it. But lets not kid ourselves that it is the best thing since sliced bread. Learning a new fangled scripting language is just another obstacle to earning a living IMO.
I'd much rather the industry settle on one language and set of frameworks and make it universal. Then I can spend my time doing my job and learning to do it better, instead of having to keep back tracking over the same basic stuff over and over again. The patron saint of Software Developers should be the mercurial David Bowie forever singing "Changes". Whenever a another smart arsed dev invents a new language, just for fun and says this is cool everyone should use it, all I hear is Madonna singing "Like A Virgin".
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I received some of my baggage the other day. Including what was my computer.
The packers had wrapped it very well. A serious amount of very thick padded paper material. Then it went inside a large carton with more packaging. Then that carton went inside a wooden crate for shipment.
The computer wouldn't even turn on, so I opened it up.
Note: No visible damage to the crate, the carton, or the computer case itself.
Two of the SATA connectors on the motherboard were broken off. One SATA cable at the hard-drive end was destroyed. Another SATA cable at the motherboard-side had the motherboard-side connector stuck inside it.
What kind of g-force would be required to yank soldered-on connectors from a motherboard, and snap the connectors from the cables?
There were no loose parts inside the case. Any shear had to have come from just the weight of the SATA cables.
(Needless to say, I've ordered a new MB, RAM, and CPU, since getting an exact replacement of 5 year old tech would have cost more than just buying new tech. I won't know what else is broken until I get all that and try to turn it on. Any bets on the condition of the 6 hard drives and the GTX video card?  )
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GenJerDan wrote: Any bets on the condition of the 6 hard drives and the GTX video card?
They may work: HDD's "autopark" the heads on power down, so hopefully they won't have impacted the platters. But if the force is sufficient to yank soldered connectors out, then the electronics in the drives may well be damaged. The video card? Ouch. Heavy heat pipes, heavy fans ...
Contact the movers: they should have insurance to cover it.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Oh, yeah. I'll be reimbursed for it. 
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Maybe happened on packing day?
Wrapped item dropped into the carton or/and carton dropped into the crate - the padding and tightness of packing would have absorbed any chance for he item to bounce/deflect.
Sin tack ear lol
Pressing the any key may be continuate
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The Russians did it.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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You can't prove that!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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The trailers on semi's bounce like crazy inside. back in 99 my Dad used space in his trailer (was driving for a moving co at the time so was easy to do) to bring a car from one side of the US to the other. It was heavily chained down; but still managed to bounce 5-6" up enough times to completely batter the paint off underneath the loadbars used to suspend cargo above it.
Even if you can read them; I'd assume the HDs are walking dead and suck the data off and retire them asap.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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GenJerDan wrote: Two of the SATA connectors on the motherboard were broken off. One SATA cable at the hard-drive end was destroyed. Another SATA cable at the motherboard-side had the motherboard-side connector stuck inside it.What kind of g-force would be required to yank soldered-on connectors from a motherboard, and snap the connectors from the cables?
Most likely cause -- vibration damage. The solder used as the mechanical attachment failed due to metal fatigue from repeated stress of the cable flopping around inside the box. Look at the solder, it probably looks all crystalline.
The hard drives may be OK or not, depending on what kind of vibration stresses they were designed to handle. However, as others have suggested, don't trust them anymore.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Yeah, I made that mistake once. Now I move my own equipment.
the constant "bouncing/rattling" is what does most of the damage,
think about how you open a stuck jar top. Tapping it with the handle of a butter knife.
Same concept. except you let them tap like that for 12+ hours. LOL.
I would replace the powersupply for similar reasons. When that goes, it will take the MB
with it!
I also had UPS deliver a computer once where I had to file a claim. They refused to pay it,
saying it had to be packaged to be dropped REPEATEDLY from 6 feet high without risk of damage.
The fine print wins again. Of course it explains Dells packaging. LOL
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Kirk 10389821 wrote: 12+ hours
Heh heh. They packed it all up on the 22nd of November and it arrived here on the 27th of December and sat...somewhere...before I could take delivery.
Well, it was 5 years old, about due for retirement, anyway (or being passed down to my 8 year old). 
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I've ordered one of these: Chuwi Hi12 Tablet[^]
Which looks interesting!
Why did you go for the 10 inch rather than the 12 out of interest?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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