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Just wanted to toss this out here and ask a question. Long before I earned my EE degree (yes, I know all about motors and other things), my dad was an EE for IBM. His favorite phrase when it was recruiting season was "I can teach an engineer how to program, I cannot teach a programmer how to engineer."
Yeah, maybe a bit bigoted but work with me. This was in the late 70s early 80s, so the term "software engineer" had not been coined yet. At my university, you could get a degree in computer science but that was it. Engineers used punch cards to talk to the IBM. Those other people got to use the terminals  .
So, I'm poking around on dice.com and I come across a job entry for "Senior Firewall Engineer."
wtf
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I agree. Most software is not engineered. Web stuff in particular.
I'm a software developer.
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I use the term lightly - engineer. 120v scares me, 240+ I want to pee. 480 and up? hell no. There is some spooky **** mechanical engineers do as well as civil engineers (other than making targets - google it). Then there comes chemical engineers that I salute, and nukes I just see in the distance as they glow.
I have the degree for an EE. I wrote software most of my life. Sooo, when I started calling myself a sw engineer, my better half slapped me sideways - you are an EE and don't forget it. So, since then I'm an EE but I write software. Mostly embedded but I can do desktop as well. And I respect electricity.
I still want to know wtf is a firewall engineer. I get the idea, but really?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I will weigh in on both sides of this.
Engineering has a history of what emerged as accepted designs, formulas, and processes that generally produce safe, reliable products. Software can't make this claim, though I'd say that OO and patterns, in most settings, are an step in that direction. But systems are very diverse, so software remains far more craft and art than it does engineering.
On the other hand, much of my career (starting in 1981) was spent in a company whose products were becoming more and more dependent on software, and less so on hardware. Consequently, many EE types moved into software. Yes, they could do it, and most had a smattering of it in university, but few were or became good at it. I said it was like putting me in an EE role if my expertise was that I'd noodled around, building speakers in my basement.
One major difference, as I see it, is that the essence of software systems is evolution. Expecting a bridge to be lengthened by 30m as part of its "next release" would provoke derisive laughter, yet the equivalent is commonplace when working on software. How to deal with this is a central challenge.
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Today there are so-called "engineering" students whose Bachelor's degree specialization is "Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning". Am not exactly sure whether these students will be engineers when they come out with the degree.
And once this AI hullabaloo dies down, where can they be employed, employable?
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My main mode of wheeled transportation involves a vehicle built and sold by Hyundai. I therefore subscribe to their "MyHyundai" service which allows me remote access to functions of the car from the comfort of my Android phone.
I pay about US$199 per year for that.
Now the app is telling me that I can't use it because I must first upgrade to the latest version of the app.
But the Google Play store tells me that the latest version of the app is not compatible with my phone. So I either upgrade my phone or I can't use the MyHyundai service at all.
This must be the kind of problem that you get when an application is created by code monkeys.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote: created by code monkeys
That would be an improvement.
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Can you use MyHyundai services through a web site?
/ravi
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Well golly! I didn't think of that. They do have a website. I'll have to go there sometime soon and see.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Or designed by the sales team.
A home without books is a body without soul. Marcus Tullius Cicero
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.4.0 (Many new features) JaxCoder.com
Latest Article: EventAggregator
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Mike Hankey wrote: Or designed by the sales team.
But still implemented by monkeys! 
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Agreed
A home without books is a body without soul. Marcus Tullius Cicero
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.4.0 (Many new features) JaxCoder.com
Latest Article: EventAggregator
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We all know an infinite number of monkeys will eventually write the complete works of Shakespear, but the same can't be said for sales monkeys.
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At least MyHyundai is not essential, we recently got a notice that our bank no longer supports our current android version and Google play said the latest version was not compatible with our phones. Then the network provider decided to discontinue 3g. And I was becoming pissed off with Samsung so new phones all round in our household.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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It could be considered essential.
One of the things I use it for is to lock the car remotely after it's been serviced because the technicians always park finished cars in their lots without locking them.
So I can make sure it's locked during that window of time of after it's finished and before I show up to get it.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Has it occurred to you that you are about to get emails to buy a new car?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I've been steeped in Microsoft development since my first PC in the late 1980's. And I have not investigated Apple since the Apple ][e came out.
How does Apple spying compare to Microsoft spying? (More, less or the same?)
I'm trying to establish whether my Sister will gain any privacy by switching to a Mac.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
modified 9hrs 15mins ago.
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I'm not a Mac user (although I own a Gen 5 circa 2010 iPod Nano that I like very much because it offers gapless playback) but it seems you can use a Mac without having to tie it to an Apple ID. But by doing that you won't be able to:
- download apps from the Mac App Store
- use iCloud services (like iCloud Drive, iCloud Photos, etc.)
- sync data across Apple devices
- use Apple Music or access your previous iTunes purchases
- use services like FaceTime, iMessage, or Apple Books
- get software updates through the App Store (you can still get macOS updates through System Preferences
If you're a dev, I expect you'll need an Apple ID in order to use Xcode but am not sure.
/ravi
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Is it possible to purchase Mac application software from third parties?
Don't tell me that the only place to get applications is from the Apple app store?
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I doubt it. Methinks one would be forced to buy them from the App Store.
So unlike the MS Windows ecosystem where there are large numbers of freeware, freemium and commercial apps that don't require you to buy them from the Microsoft Store.
/ravi
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I think it's best to assume that all of these megacorps are sphincters in bed with the NSA.
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I guess a lot depends on the meaning of the word "spying". Are you talking about them accessing data on your machine without your permission? I don't have any proof that any of them do that. Are you talking about them knowing some personal information about you? Yes, they both do that.
In my particular case, it would be impossible for them not to know anything about me as they both send me invoices for services and they take money from my credit card. Do I mind? No, not really. Apple knows my tastes in music and Apple Music proposes a lot of songs based on my preferences. I also like to store stuff on Microsoft OneDrive so I can access it from anywhere. I use many services and companies providing those services have access to some private information. I prefer to think they don't use that information for nefarious purposes.
Mircea
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I think in the grand scheme of things apple will mine your data, but not like Microsoft, Linkedin or google. That said, there is a dark side to apple... darth vader level. Hear my sad story....
so, a few years ago, I started to dabble in Apple stuff. I gave in to the family and signed up for a family plan that gave us "free" apple iphones. Now I honestly don't give a flying elephant about the phone. The camera is useful (I'm from the era where we just don't take an infinite number of pictures of everything) other than that, I get maybe 10 real calls a month and about a 1000 spam.
Next up, I started tinkering with a virtual machine running macOS. This is called a hackintosh, but it's okay, I bought a miniMac to play with as well. The problem is that ALL of these devices Apple coordinates with... so about a year ago, Apple tried to update or backup or attempt to do something useful on my phone. My iPhone is an 11xr - old yes but perfectly functional. Whatever apple did, the phone lost 95% of my contacts. Then Apple synced, and my VM and minimac lost all of the contacts...
helpful like a chainsaw.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Now, if any of you know me here, there is one issue that just burns me. Microsoft forced updates rebooting **** for seriously stupid reasons. I think that decision deserves a baseball bat to the knees of the person who made that decision. But wait, maybe it was made by committee. Fine, more baseball bats and I'll start a lottery of who wants to whack a knee.
Why do I bring this up now? Well, I'm trying to stage a virtual machine for my customer before I disappear into the retirement cloud. I'm clicking on Windows Update. It will not install. It won't download. I've been at this for 4 hours. Grrrr.
Elephanting clowns.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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