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And in 45 seconds I can prove to you that native C++ with ASM optimizations will run rings around them both.
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Chris Maunder wrote: ...and all the java crowd say the same thing about .NET.
Move on, nothing to see
But of course, they are wrong and we are right. Why? Well, because we are, well.... us.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote: Chris Maunder wrote:
...and all the java crowd say the same thing about .NET.
***to the tune of big ben***
Wrong wrong wrong wrong..... wrong wrong wrong wrong...... wrong.... wrong... wrong....
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I hope you realise that my post was meant to be ironic.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote: I hope you realise that my post was meant to be ironic.
lol, the perils of plain text. Perhaps someone should make a way of displaying text with the empesis being more obvious. At least there is a silver lining; we both agree
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Exactly Chris.
I for one applaud the work your team does, and creating a separate Java home is another excellent idea which will be appreciated by most of us.
To those of you who hate (or are frightened of) Java, please don't waste space in this forum airing your prejudices.
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You really need a good physician.
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler.
-- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong.
-- Iain Clarke
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Fanaticism is a pathology...
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler.
-- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong.
-- Iain Clarke
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CPallini wrote: Fanaticism is a pathology...
Fanaticism is an emotion of being filled with excessive, uncritical zeal, particularly for an extreme religious or political cause, or with an obsessive enthusiasm for a pastime or hobby.
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OK. What about you? Don't you feel a bit fanatic?
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler.
-- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong.
-- Iain Clarke
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Maybe a little perhaps..... any reason?
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Marking Java as 'The worst code I've ever seen...' IMHO is not a manifestation of equilibrium.
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler.
-- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong.
-- Iain Clarke
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thats mind blogging entry
"Opinions are neither right nor wrong. I cannot change your opinion. I can, however, change what influences your opinion." - David Crow Never mind - my own stupidity is the source of every "problem" - Mixture
cheers,
Alok Gupta
VC Forum Q&A :- I/ IV
Support CRY- Child Relief and You/codeProject$$>
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Java has many adnvantages over .NET and disadvantages as well - one of the most problematic (in my opinion) being not supporting value types, everything is object. But, you state that it chews lot of memory and is slow; having seen your latest articles do you have the courage to say that WPF and especially your code runs faster and with less memory than Java Swing GUI for example?
P.S. I write in .NET also.
Thanks,
Georgi
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Georgi Atanasov wrote: do you have the courage to say that WPF and especially your code runs faster and with less memory than Java Swing GUI for example
Good point, no I don't. However what I do know is when it has been optimised it will be. I would imagine it probably already is though. One thing I do know is it would have taken me much longer to get the performance I have using Java.
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I don't know Java, tell me, which advantages has it? Not supporting value types of course is annoying, but this isn't solved very well in C#, too. You can't clone objects by default, they all have to implement ICloneable, which is not even generic!
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Dude,
I am not sure you are familiar with value and reference types at all; it has nothing to do with ICloneable... As a GUI developer I may speak of the following advantages of Java Swing over .NET 2.0: Java is completely detached from the underlying OS - .NET is using Interop primarily; 99% of the controls are wrappers of their Win32 equivalents; you need to know Win32 API in order to create commercial controls. Let me mention that things are different in WPF - there is actual bridge which separates OS from the GUI. But still, WPF consumes lot of memory and is not the platform a company, which cares about performance, would choose on... That is my personal opinion of course.
Thanks,
Georgi
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I think is the main difference between value and reference types is, that if you write
x = y
and y is a value type, x contains a copy of y, while when y is a reference type, x contains a reference to y. To copy y, y is required to ICloneable. Is that false?
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perhaps a better example might be
x = y
y.a_property = some_value
if (x.a_property == y.a_property) then referance type
else value type
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OK, but basically it's the same. So what did I understand wrong? It does have something to do with ICloneable, or not?
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referance and values types have very little to do with ICloneable...
values types a guess are effectively implementors of ICloneable as x = y produces essentially a clone of x
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It is obvious that you are not familiar (to be honest your guesses amused me pretty much ) with Value and Reference types - you may try the following article (the first found one after search).
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/dotnet/Primitive_Ref_ValueTypes.aspx[^]
If I may advise you - you need read more about the basics of .NET such as Common Language Runtime (CLR), IL, value and reference types, etc.
And do not be that arrogant:
Derek Bartram wrote: Uh, ***trying not to sound rude***, how inefficiently do you code? .
Having in mind that you even dare to compare the performance of native C++ against .NET and after examining some code from your "Famous" Ribbon library I am not completely sure that you are an efficiency master...
Thanks,
Georgi
modified on Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:52 PM
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Georgi Atanasov wrote: It is obvious that you are not familiar (to be honest your guesses amused me pretty much ) with Value and Reference types
I've just read the article and can't see anything wrong with my earlier post specifically; perhaps you could be more specific please.
Thank you for the link however as it does clarify a few implementation details of how value and type referances work; however those details didn't relate to the orriginal question.
Georgi Atanasov wrote: need read more about the basics of .NET such as Common Language Runtime
As a developer of .NET for 5-6 years I've never had a problem yet, and amongst my peer group I am considered a good programmer, so perhaps I question this.
Georgi Atanasov wrote: And do not be that arrogant:
I wasn't being arrogant, in fact I was deliberatly trying not to be; however writing efficient code and algorithms is challenging (and I would happily admit i'm no expert, however subjectively I would say I'm pretty good). Efficiency of coding often impacts performance more than code, and as someone from an innitial Java background there was were many things I used to do 'wrong' in .net initially when I transfered languages that did have an impact on performance. I appologise if offence was taken.
Georgi Atanasov wrote: Having in mind that you even dare to compare the performance of native C++ against .NET
Firstly doing a comparison of high level libraries such as my Ribbon Control Library is generally not a suitable test as too many implementation issues are often prevalent. A number of years ago (and this has been repeated by a number of my colegues) we developed a series of rather primative tests to analyse the performance of a few main basic language functions (data read, addition, subtration, multiplication, division, list sorting etc), and for Java vs. C# .NET the .NET language out performed Java by a significant degree and more importantly consistantly. While I havn't perform a similar test myself I have heard of colegues performing the test upon .NET and native C++ and the difference is not that significant (although granted C++ did outperform consistently).
Georgi Atanasov wrote: after examining some code from your "Famous" Ribbon library I am not completely sure that you are an efficiency master...
Firstly great, I hope you did. I'll go look at the comments you left in the article so that I can improve the library further. Secondly, the library has been developed relatively quickly for functionality primarily and efficiency as not really been considered at this stage. Thirdly i'm not sure what you comparied the efficiency of the system with (and I assume you used the local version rather than the web version which is far older and slower due to lack of an important update), however on my system (and testing be third parties on a number of other systems) my library performs well within the boundaries of office performance (and even better in a few cases). Fourthly, it's "famous"?
Finally, you mention being arrogant yet frankly you message smacks of arrogancy. I'm happy to admit i'm wrong when someone shows me evidence to the opposite, however at no stage you have done this; instead you have done nothing more than a unproved attack against myself. This is a community of developers supporting each other, perhaps if you can't or don't respect that you should consider finding a different site to occupy. Thank you, Derek.
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