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Shivprasad koirala wrote: I have not written that you will get a job.
No, you implied it by titling your articles as "interview questions".
Shivprasad koirala wrote: if you have a interview tommorrow then probably you will call it something else
Nope. It's still garbage. You either know it before hand or you don't. If you don't know it, then don't waste your prospective employers time and apply for the job. The reason I have the job I do now is because I'm the 4th person to apply for it in a year. The previous people all passed phone interviews, face-to-face interviews, and did well, but when they sat their butts down in the chair in their cube, they couldn't do a damn thing. They knew the answers to the interview questions, but didn't have any experience (they lied about it), nor any clue how to apply what they knew.
The last person before me, had someone else do the phone interview, then he came in for the face-to-face interview and knew the answers to common interview questions for that job, even some questions you don't normally get in an interview, and passed. He boasted about how he wrote operating systems for embedded devices, and yada, yada, yada, but when his ass hit the chair, he couldn't (no joke here!) drag and drop an icon to copy a file in Windows.
I got the job on the third try I applied for it and have since made a very good impression with my abilities and work ethic. I didn't know everything I needed to know to get the job. Where I emphasized my skills is my extremely strong ability to pick up something I don't know, learn it VERY quickly, and be productive with it in, at most, a few days.
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How is it possible a person who don't know to drag and drop and yet cleared the interview just by knowing the answers?
Must be known to interviewer.
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Member 4804690 wrote: Must be known to interviewer
Hardly, they're not even from the same continent.
It's the difference between being "book smart" and "street smart" when it comes to doing the actual job. There is a reason why you hear of "paper CNE"'s and "paper MCSE"'s.
In India, to get the best chance at an H1B, groups of friends used to get together, buy books on the tests. Then everyone would sit around the table and study the books like mad, never having touched a computer. Since the tests all want the "book" answers, it was relatively easy to pass the tests. But, when you go to apply what you "know" from those books at an actual job, it's impossible to do without the experience go with the knowledge.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: In India, to get the best chance at an H1B, groups of friends used to get together, buy books on the tests. Then everyone would sit around the table and study the books like mad, never having touched a computer
Thats too Exaggerated .I do not think that happens in India, atleast i can bet on it as a localite.Not sure if you have seen yourself people do that.If that was a case i do not think outsourcing would have come to India.I think the so called H1 craze has completely gone off...not many people are interested in US travel now a days.
Dave Kreskowiak wrote: But, when you go to apply what you "know" from those books at an actual job, it's impossible to do without the experience go with the knowledge.
Agreed with out experience its of no use. But some times only street smart does not work you need to revise a bit and this article was written from that perspective.
Footprints on the sand are not made by sitting at the shore.
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Shivprasad koirala wrote: I do not think that happens in India, atleast i can bet on it as a localite.Not sure if you have seen yourself people do that.
Haven't seen it myself, but I've heard the same story, multiple times, from Indians.
Shivprasad koirala wrote: If that was a case i do not think outsourcing would have come to India
The level of skill doesn't matter. What motivates corporations is cheaper and cheaper labor. In 2004, the number of PC's per capita (1,000,000 people) in the US was about 763 (#4 in the world). In India, it was 12 (#128 out of 157 countries). Considering India's 2004 population of around 1.065 billion people, well, the math is pretty simple and it says that India doesn't exactly have a large experience base to drawn from there.
Shivprasad koirala wrote: not many people are interested in US travel now a days.
Of course not! There aren't any jobs here anymore!
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Hi Dave,
This thread is just a response to your comment raised for Indian's, which state that they got the jobs by buying some books from the street. Well, taking your favor, if I say that you are correct then please justify below statics:
1 : 38% of doctors in US are Indians.
2 : 36% of scientist in NASA are Indians.
3 : 34% of Microsoft employee are Indians.
There are many more statics but I think that would enough to remind you that if all those people raised from the book reading then I think other countries should adopt these methodology.
One more thing Dave, please never under estimate someone because you think he/she is inferior to you. As a Indian we taught this thing to respect those people also who abuse you.
Have a nice day !
Thanks.
Regards,
Anuj
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Thanks for all your comments. I have written this article with my heart and as said its for revision. People who are worth are always worth , religion country does not matter, interview questions is just fast mechanism to revise and get ready.
Again said and done , comment on me not on a country or a national. The article is my thought process they do not depict a thought process of any country as such. We are all professionals , i saw yoru profile , definetly not worth for a MVP to comment on a certain section of a people.
I hope this message is removed and we live happily.
Sorry for any message which hurts you.
Visit my 500 videos on WCF,WPF,WWF,Silverlight,UML design patters @ http://www.questpond.com
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I apologize to all ( specially Dave & Shivprasad) for being such a person. I do respect great minds and I feel no shame to say sorry to them. This indeed is a good article and I would like to see some more like this as eventually they make us more professional.
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Looks like DAVE is one of those Americans whose job had been kicked off by a Indian....
These kind of people are no good on earth...destructive nature. Jealous and useless people.
Thu tere zindagi pe ( I hope DAVE you can figure this sentence out if you have a indian freind).
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mallasharad wrote: Looks like DAVE is one of those Americans whose job had been kicked off by a Indian....
Not by one, but by 4. And they all lost their jobs 6 months later.
I'm not talking about that one experience. I'm speaking from about the last 20 years of experience and the hundred or so people I've worked with directly, employees and contractors alike.
Funny though, even in my current job. I replaced a guy who, on his resume, said he wrote a couple of operating systems, but yet, couldn't drag and drop to copy a file, or understand and follow the simplest of instructions with just installing software. He replaced a guy who just couldn't get along with anyone who wasn't of his faith. Guess where they came from?
Or how about the 18 contractors we had to let go at the end of 2008, 3 of which we kept on longer than the rest because they were the only ones who had a clue about basic troubleshooting and software testing. That one taught us not to trust the contract house to do the interviewing. Oh, and of those 3, 2 were Indian, one was Japanese. The rest were Indian. The contract house even had the balls to call us up and request that we keep someone else on instead of one of the people we chose because the guys H1B would have expired if we did and he would have to go back to India.
Don't get me wrong. We do have Indian people around that I very much respect because they do know what they are doing. But, with the outsourcing boom, they have to fight to keep up their person reputation in the midst of a flood of others from their same country who have a hard time finding the power switch.
mallasharad wrote: Thu tere zindagi pe ( I hope DAVE you can figure this sentence out if you have a indian freind).
I don't give a rats ass what it says...
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I think that those QA are good only for a person who has some experience in Service Oriented design but lacks some theoretical knowledge. What happens in the programming world is that a new theory just comes to explain things that have been in the world for a while. Say, I figured out that my way of designing programming applications is called AGILE. Some how I missed the term, never paid attention to it, just designed accordingly. If I asked during an interview what the Agile was I would never be able to answer.
Another example is Designing Patterns and so on.
I think that profiling programmers based on their nationality is incorrect.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with Indian programmers, I just think that programming boom forced many foreign people pretend to be programmers to get jobs in America, visas, etc... Or it forced many people obtain the computer science as their second degree even though they did not like it and initially did not intend to work as programmers.
So the interviewer should just filter a real programmer with knowledge and desire. It applies not only to Indians.
I have some my very own experience in the matter.
In year 1999 I interviewed 42 programmers (happened to be with computer science degrees from India) and found only one, but really good one.
This year my company was looking for programmers and again I interviewed about 15 programmers(mostly from India).
In their resumes they claim to know things and do things. Some of them have some theoretical knowledge.
The last assignment was to write a simple web application to display a table with data taken from a database. An experienced programmer must have it done within 20 minutes.
One person passed the test.
The rest failed it either completely or it took them about hour and a half to display wrong data.
As for the article I think it is a good one. If you obtain a SOA position and have some experience in architecture this article may help to organize your thoughts before the interview
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Ed Guzman wrote: I think that profiling programmers based on their nationality is incorrect.
I don't profile based on nationality. I'm just using statistics pointing at the U.S. and the biggest supplier of off-shore "talent" to the U.S., namely India. I know a few Indian people in various position that can manage projects and write code as well as U.S. people who can do the same. I also know a bunch of U.S. people that I had the displeasure of working with who couldn't find their way around a computer (or their own ass) if they had a map, flashlight, compass, GPS, and a couple of tour guides. I've also had the displeasure of working with a bunch of "off-shores", mostly Indian, but some Chinese, and a couple of guys from Cambodia, none of which should have ever gotten an H1B for IT work.
My whole objection to the article was it came acrossed as a summary "cheat sheet", giving the answers specifically to pass interview questions. Again, "paper certified" instead of "street smart" IT. I'll take a street smart guy as a team member any day...
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: My whole objection to the article was it came acrossed as a summary "cheat sheet",
I agree its a revision material and if you want to say its a cheat sheet welcome. yes its a quick revision and equivalently important.
The point is how many interviews now a days ask situtaional questions to get those street smart guys.The other side is equally to be blamed. Recently one of my freinds went to IBM for interview the interviewers demand was he needed person who knows everything. This is the case with the most interviews now a days including US interviews. A poor chap working on a 1.1 maintenance project how the hell he will know about SOA , he needs to revise , cheat sheet and this article is that.
Dave Kreskowiak wrote: giving the answers specifically to pass interview questions.
This article 1000 % can not help to get a job. Its a revision sheet.
Dave Kreskowiak wrote: I'll take a street smart guy as a team member any day...
I agree street smart guys are important. But is the case with the all interviewers today.
I think the best way to take interview is to tell him to code , but thats not practically feasible in bigger companies.
There is a difference between cramming and revision. My intetion of writing this article is revision and not sending crammed developers in the market , they will eventually fall out.
Visit my 500 videos on WCF,WPF,WWF,Silverlight,UML design patters @ http://www.questpond.com
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I know that I am entering in someone's else discussion. But I read your article, I read some of the comments and I want to express my view on the situation.
I don't think Dave is wrong. I don't think you are wrong either. Personally, I don't like interview question articles. I really consider them cheat sheets, but I didn't vote, because I can also see that some interviews ask much more questions than they really need to ask, so we need to get ready to answer all of them. I personally don't like interview questions' articles or the like because I want to read an article to learn something, not to do a "basic review". But as I don't see anything wrong, I simply don't vote... it is not an article for me, and I understand that it can be useful to someone else.
But now I will talk about Dave's attitude, which some people seem to see as a problem with Indians. I don't see it that way. I live in Canada. I am Brazilian, so, I am an immigrant. I know there are people that are intolerant to any immigrant and I am sometimes seen as inferior... yet, I can't consider they wrong for acting differently with me before knowing me. In Brazil, people who finish university is usually much more incompetent than people who finish university in Canada (and from what I heard, the good US universities never allow an incompetent to get a diploma).
I usually see that Brazilians never buy components made by Brazilian companies, yet they buy components made in US, even if in fact those are components made by Brazilians... yet, I am one that says that I will never buy components made by Brazilian companies. The reason is simple: Brazilians lie. A lot.
I myself interviewed some persons I made bad choices because all the "basic" answers were there. The person, in fact, knew all the interview questions and answers, but was the worst programmer I ever need to deal with.
So, before losing focus, I can see this:
* An "Interview questions" article may help someone who already knows the topic but is not used to some terms... but it will more probably help an incompetent seem competent;
* Judging people by their origin is not being regionalist... it is a reality. If you are a competent person judged as incompetent by your country, you will probably hate that... but if you are the one hiring, and living from the results, maybe you do the same. If you don't have time to know the person, you usually judge by what you see. I can say that: Brazilians lie, a lot. They will say they did things they didn't, they know technologies they don't etc. Canadians may study a lot but many don't know real world scenarios, because they've never worked in many cases, they have only studied. Indians follow rules. They learns well-known practices and follow, without thinking. Don't get offended, there are always exceptions, but that's the "before I know you thinking".
Well... I don't know how to make a conclusion, but I hope you see that it is not personal, but articles like this may really help bad people and regionalism is both a bad thing (when you are an exception) and a good thing to apply before knowing someone (especially when money is involved).
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Thanks Paulo i agree to most of the things what you have said. I have already clarified my intent. If someone mugs up , its so easy to catch them up. Just put a couple of situation based question and they stumble.
Its a quick revision and reference sheet to get the right technical vocabulary.
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Aaah its Pete at the back...Ok , hey i was confused with the name dave.
This thread spins back with comments every 6 months.
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There is nothing wrong with having a cheat sheet for getting interview questions right..
Even a Street Smart person needs a cheat sheet to remember..
So if u cant provide a objective way to improve this collection then please move on instead of criticizing people on race, nationality..
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Really? I just got done interviewing 35 people to fill 3 positions. Most of them could give me the answers to the questions you find on these sites, but when asked to anaylze problems, write small code blocks, or otherwise answer questions where concepts behind previous questions they answered are applied, NONE OF THEM could pass these simple tests.
There is nothing you can say about how good this idea is when I have a ton of experience that tells me they are a complete waste of the INTERVIEWERS time.
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You seem to be someone who has lots of knowledge or at least posing to be someone with lot of skills on SOA.
Since this creepy sounding discussion started by you, has come this far, I would like to ask you only 2 questions:
How many articles have you published on SOA till now on codeproject? Have at least thought of writing a few articles which give insights to fellow readers on various issues they might come accross?
Instead of doing something productive, you come to these posts just to bash people who doing something good for others?
If you cannot like someone's work at least improve yourself by not hating it. I am very happy for you that you have a job in hand even with this sort of arrogant attitude!
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bharatRajM16587 wrote: You seem to be someone who has lots of knowledge or at least posing to be
someone with lot of skills on SOA.
Nope and I never said I was an expert on SOA.
bharatRajM16587 wrote: How many articles have you published on SOA till now on codeproject? Have at
least thought of writing a few articles which give insights to fellow readers on
various issues they might come accross?
This question is completely irrelevent to the discussion I started, years ago. It's not the number of articles I've written, but the number of interviews I've had to conduct and waste my time on because the candidate was giving me book answers, if any at all, and had no experience to back up what they were telling me.
bharatRajM16587 wrote: Instead of doing something productive, you come to these posts just to bash
people who doing something good for others?
If you actually bothered to read the entire discussion thread, you would know why I believe this is FAR from doing "good for others". That's my entire point of the thread.
bharatRajM16587 wrote: If you cannot like someone's work at least improve yourself by not hating it.
I can't stand "Interview Question ariticles" because, as I've just said, I've had to waste my time in too many interviews where the guy/gal sitting acrossed from me didn't really know anything about what they were regurgitating back at me.
bharatRajM16587 wrote: I am very happy for you that you have a job in hand even with this sort of arrogant attitude!
I beg to differ. Arrogant is believing that you can bluff your way past me in an interview by reading a couple of these articles.
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Ed Guzman wrote: I think that those QA are good only for a person who has some experience in Service Oriented design but lacks some theoretical knowledge. What happens in the programming world is that a new theory just comes to explain things that have been in the world for a while
Exactly experience is one part and getting the right technological sentence is other part. For instance a developer working on a delegate knows everything about it.
But he needs to say that one liner "Its abstract pointer to a function". If he does not communicate that senetence , then how will the interviewer know about his knowledge.
many asians ( including me ) have english as second language and its essential to get things right before interviewer.
My whole point here is to do a revision of the WHAT part of it , if you do not have knowledge you will always get stuck with 'HOW" part which needs logical thinking.
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Shiv,
You do not have to defend yourself so much on this.
I really admire your work and there are many like me who like your work & these articles on codeproject.
Not that I have any objections on it, but may be its bit too far to title this article as Interview questions but its better to change it something like a ready reckoner for SOA and end this creepy sounding discussion to appease everyone.
Peace & Love,
Bharath
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Thanks Bharat.
I wrote this article 6 years back. I had lot of immaturity at that time. So those comments are quite old and i have answered them in immatured manner. I agree that reckoner would be a good idea but i think at the core its a interview question and answers , so changing that would lead to dilution of the topic.
Why to hide , yes its a interview question with answers . I know its not the best but that was my capability 6 years back.
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Shivprasad, I commend you for your courteous response to a rude, irrelevant comment. I personally thought it was a very good article. I am going for an interview where I expect to be asked some questions about SOA, and your article has helped me get the "big picture".
I have also interviewed people, and, in general, I do not expect them to have "hands on" experience of everything that is in the job, but, I do expect them to have some top level view of the areas where they lack experience. eg. If the job description includes "database sharding", I expect the applicant to at least know what "database sharding" is, even if they have never done it. If the person learnt what "database sharding" is just the night before, by coming to an article like this, then he/she will get the job over someone who did not make that effort.
Well done!
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