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For those who work in companies that have large dev teams, has your organization considered using MS DevBox[^]?
/ravi
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I think there is a bit of an anti-Microsoft attitude in upper management at this time.
"They" seem to think that either "free" (e.g. open-source) or "whatever costs the most" must be the best product -- surely a mid-priced option should be avoided on principle. 
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Fortunately the OS requirements (win 10/11 Enterprise) mean my current employer can't consider it.
Because we all know how it would go.
"All your work is in the cloud now, so we're replacing your current workstation with a $200 piece of crap with a dual core 1ghz processor and 2gb of ram to fund the next round of executive bonuses."
Followed with next quarter:
"Paying $0.50/hour for hosting is too expensive. We've deployed a script to automatically log you out of and shut down your remote development environment after 3 seconds of inactivity. We've also negotiated a new custom platform tier with Azure. You'll now only have 1 CPU core and 1 GB of ram."
And then:
"Developer productivity has fallen catastrophically over the last half year. To save costs we're sacking all of you and replacing you with a team from Offshoria who will work for a dollar a day."
The final update will be posted not via normal business channels but on ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) edCompany.com
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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Unfortunately true. The accountants are in charge, and as we all know they "know the cost of everything and the value of nothing".
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Dan Neely wrote: All your work is in the cloud now, so we're replacing your current workstation with a $200 piece of crap with a dual core 1ghz processor and 2gb of ram
This is actually workable. Not sure about 1GHz/2GB RAM, but I do have a NUC on my desk, and RDP into remote VMs. Its only job is to show a remote machine's display, so you don't need a tremendous amount of horsepower to do that. At one point I was RDPing into a remote system over VPN that was thousands of miles away, over my puny 5mbps connection. I honestly had no problem with that, even though the RDP session was set up across 2 monitors, a full HD one and a 4K one. Of course I wasn't watching videos (or sharing screens over a Teams call) with that, but for VS, a bunch of command line windows and a few browser sessions? Plenty.
Of course the remote system was way more powerful than the NUC on my desk. There's no downscaling a dev workstation if you want its user to be productive.
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We use cloud desktops for all of our offsite devs (outside the U.S.). Not sure if they are "MS DevBox" ones or not.
biggest complaint is performance, some worse than others. Just not as performant as a hard wired local desktop, or a good laptop at the ready. Other than that it seems to be working so far.
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And in tomorrow's Insider News: MS DevBox hacked and millions of lines of source code stolen.
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... The stolen code was uploaded to ### for additional AI learning to turn out better code search results... 
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Or a related question: Do/Did you know what happens to the codebase for products/services when they die?
Well, yes, sometimes I get salty and nostalgic about some software/hardware going the way of the dodo. I'd like to ask what happens with the codebase of those things.
- Does the company keep it?
- Are the devs free to tinker with it in any way or form (like if someone would like to bring new features/fixes to that legacy codebase to bring some old abandoned hardware to life again)
- Is it "frozen"/locked somewhere?
For things like: new Kernels on old Android versions, Old MacOS versions, porting new iOS versions to old phones (like iPhone 4S), Old Windows Versions (can you imagine Windows XP or with modern 11 Kernel? Not to mention Windows phone (yes, I'm one of those )), Google Glass, Orkut, Google Wave, unlocking bootloaders of those old Palm/Symbian devices to give them some utility, together with the drivers and toolchains.
As a developer, I know that doing stuff like this sometimes is not feasible due to the effort required to modernise a codebase and bring fixes and other modern stuff to a retired codebase. Sometimes it is better just to leave it behind because you have more things to do than mess around with old stuff.
I know it is a pipe dream, but I wonder what someone with the insider/hands-on knowledge could do with those things, like free them up from their "software cages" and put them to good use.
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I think the software has to "age" first. One can get source to most of the older games. An "older" payroll system? Not much interest if you can buy QuickBooks.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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Never throw anything out.
I don't know. I have worked on two (which come to mind) such projects which I doubt are still in use today. I have copies of all of the code for both  .
The first was written for OpenVMS back in 1995 -- there was no version control other than that I copied everything to a floppy before leaving the office each day. I expect that the system was shut down and maybe wiped long ago. Potentially, the system is sitting in storage with the code intact, but maybe unreadable.
The second was written in 2004 -- I continued my practice of copying everything to floppy CD each day, but we also began using Subversion at some point. I have no idea whether or not that repository is still in use.
Both of those were very specific to a particular scenario which I will never encounter again, so there will never be a reason to modernize them. Yet having copies is good for answering the occasional, "how did I do that before?" moment.
My current employer doesn't allow employees to copy files to external media  , so I can't have my own off-line copy for archive purposes. But I do copy everything to my "H" drive for research purposes. The enterprise has switched version control systems in the past, so I can't trust that everything will be readily accessible if/when I need it.
If your question is about access to dead code from before you joined the company; just ignore it, it doesn't exist.
P.S. If your question is about commercial software -- I have worked only on internal applications.
modified 1-Mar-23 12:38pm.
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"Small" firm; there'd be a few years where old and new are supported, but eventually we kill of the old.
It eats into our profit and has our name; we can't have an old, unsupported version in the field that makes customers pissed because we can't support it eternally.
You keep pipedreaming about IK+ on C64 and how freeing that code could "help" humanity.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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It may vary. In some cases the answer is “Yes” and some cases the answer is “No”. For an example if you are an employee of any software firm and you write a program for your company, they will not allow you to use it anywhere else. If you do that, they have the right to go for a legal action against you.
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Well, I'm not saying to take any code home, but maybe experiment inside of the company with retired devices or anything like that, or maybe updating drivers/kernels/firmwares/whatever to a more recent revision and flash it on older devices just to see what happens or anything.
IDK, but if I'd work for any company like those I mentioned, I'd like to have some spare time to work with some funny/interesting "retro gear" (if available, since the source code for everything would just "be there") just to see how they would behave in more modern days.
To me, one thing is tinkering with retro gear while dealing with "black boxes". Some stuff is so locked down that, without knowledge, you can hit a blocker that is a deal-breaker and give up. Tinkering with those things while having full knowledge of how it works and being able to mess around with the source code is on another level 
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The codebase typically belongs to the company, not the developers who worked for the company. Some parts of the codebase may be licensed from other companies/developers, they can't be published with the codebase even if the company wanted to.
After a sufficiently long time has passed, some companies will place their source code in the public domain (see Microsoft with DOS 1.1). If a company goes bankrupt, someone will still own the IP, and they may place it in the public domain. In all other cases, the code remains proprietary (see Microsoft with Windows).
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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interesting question.
I would sometimes love to look back at some old code from like MS win 3.11(probably available, I just didn't look) or the like. But not sure it would be feasible. For MS or for me. The note from someone about having the code running round with their company name on it. Unlikely to be a good thing for them.
As for taking code home. umm No. I have taken snippets of code home. IE 1-2 lines where I did something really inventive that I thought was worth remembering later. I would change the variable names etc.. and email myself a copy. I then copy those into a Joplin/OneNote, Evernote notepad and can refer to them in the future.
The funny part about that is. If it is code that i know very well. C# etc.. I never refer to it. If it is something I know less well, then the code isn't inventive enough and I usually have to go relearn it.
BUT, it would be awesome when going into a new environment to be able to have access to their old codebase for learning some of the old business rules they had in place and why they did stuff. Quite often in new positions I have discovered that business rules are hardcoded into the source and that is your best bet for discovering how the company works the way it does.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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Very interesting, thanks for posting. 
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Well, I'm not saying to take any code home, but maybe experiment inside of the company with retired devices or anything like that, or maybe updating drivers/kernels/firmwares/whatever to a more recent revision and flash it on older devices just to see what happens or anything.
IDK, but if I'd work for any company like those I mentioned, I'd like to have some spare time to work with some funny/interesting "retro gear" (if available, since the source code for everything would just "be there") just to see how they would behave in more modern days.
To me, one thing is tinkering with retro gear while dealing with "black boxes". Some stuff is so locked down that, without knowledge, you can hit a blocker that is a deal-breaker and give up. Tinkering with those things while having full knowledge of how it works and being able to mess around with the source code is on another level
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I know that Apache took on some of the Google Wave code, but I am not sure if it is still active.
I am sure some of tech from Wave made it into Google Docs.
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its mostly archived somewhere...useless........you think people would have time to tinker with old code when they can't fix their own code?...possibly in the future u can ask AI to do that kinda work
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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My group keeps comprehensive backups due to our products' extraordinary life span, 10 years or more. We limit support to more recent versions.
Archived source code is generally available to the team, although some older items take a minor bit of effort to retrieve.
We have one application, an in-house debugging tool, that has been in active development since 2000.
Software Zen: delete this;
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seriously, I am doing a short presentation in a few hours about Smart Phone security for the masses. Basically telling people not to use TikTok and public wifi.
Thoughts on a joke to start it with?
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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knock knock who's there 
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What is the name of a popular search engine that most answers to questions can be found with? for $100, Bob.
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Q: How can you tell which one of your friends has the latest fancy smartphone?
A: Don't worry, they'll let you know.
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