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Chris Maunder wrote: I was under the impression that Microsoft had listened to the pitchfork wielding masses and stopped the practice of rebooting your machine without warning. I honestly had.
Whatever possessed you to come to that conclusion? As far as I'm concerned, it's getting worse - not better.
A few months ago I was commiserating right here in the lounge about that fact that I had finally abandoned the idea of developing on Windows clients altogether, and using server versions instead to run my dev tools, strictly for the reason that traditionally, Windows Server versions never rebooted on their own. Only to be proven wrong on the very first Patch Tuesday cycle following my clean install of Server 2019.
Previous versions (2016? 2012 R2? Older still?) would never complain, even if you made them wait, quite literally, for months.
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It's a hard call for me, they both seem so evenly matched.
Explorans limites defectum
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I have no idea about Rust. You can't kiss all the girls.
C++ seems to be more of a love-hate relationship for those who don't hate it outright. I don't think it has many fanboys, but it certainly has its share of pedants.
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Should I introduce you to the Ruby fans?  Neither of the above come close.
TTFN - Kent
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I definitely don't want to meet them then...
Explorans limites defectum
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I didn't realize C++ had those; I thought they were only for unpopular and niche new languages (Rust, Go, Python, etc.).
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C++ has pro level practitioners for sure.
Explorans limites defectum
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I just made this post on the Rust section of Reddit and it got removed as offensive or abusive:
"The whole variable shadowing thing is just a ridiculously bad idea. I cannot believe that a language so anal retentive about safety would allow such a thing. If there's not an option to have the compiler warning about it, there should be."
I mean that's just Rust fan boys suppressing anything that questions the sanctity of Rust.
Explorans limites defectum
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Probably offensive because of "anal retentive". We're getting inundated with people who grew up in very sheltered environments.
I'd never heard of variable shadowing and had to look it up. 
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Tell us how you really feel!  
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As far as I'm concerned...the C++ fanbois at least have decades worth of real-world projects they can use to support whatever claims they want to make. Rust right now is being described by Wikipedia as having appeared less than a decade ago. Remove from that whatever amount of time it takes for any language to see some real-world use.
Is it fair to draw any conclusion from that? Whether that's even a valid metric to use, that's not for me to decide, but it is what first came to mind...
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I dunno, a new language may engender even more ardent support, because they have an 'us against the world' thing going on or something.
Explorans limites defectum
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Dean Roddey wrote: even more ardent support, because they have an 'us against the world' thing going on
That's pretty much my point - the question was, who has the most ridiculous fan boys.
They're being ridiculous if a language is brand new and still unproven. If a language's been around for 50 years...its defenders at least have a leg to stand on.
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Sorry to post here, but I kept getting an error when posting a Question...
I need a tool that can examine a Visual Studio project, and then spit out metadata - things like:
- version of MS Build
- Target .NET version
- list of packages/dependencies/etc.
I can build this, but if something already exists that would be preferable.
Ideally it can scan projects in an Organization's Azure DevOps repositories to build up a report.
I have a client with literally 100s (perhaps 1000s) of such projects, and they need to catalog what tools/components/libraries/etc. they are using. Primarily so they can track EOL (end of life) and be less reactive to upgrades and such.
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Andreas Mertens wrote: Looking for a tool...
One lives a few doors down from my house.
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If I thought that would help...
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Oh, I'm sorry! I didn't read your entire post. I didn't know you were looking for THAT kind of tool!
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After chuckling at Dave's answer and also thinking 'I see a lot of tools' when I read your question, I did think there used to be something around - I'm still looking for it though
I do see things like Project Class (Microsoft.Build.Evaluation) | Microsoft Docs but not the cohesive example I thought was out there (could have been ages ago)
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I was not aware that class even existed - thanks for pointing it out. I need to explore that namespace a bit more too...
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If you write it yourself, you're going to have to deal with several variations of the Visual Studio project, even if you limit yourself to recent versions of Visual Studio.
There's the "traditional" project format:
<Project ToolsVersion="15.0" DefaultTargets="Build" xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/developer/msbuild/2003"> For that, the NuGet package references can either be stored in a packages.config file, or as <PackageReference> elements in the project file.
They'll also be listed as <Reference> elements within the project file. And you'll have a reference for the complete dependency tree of NuGet packages which the referenced packages depend on.
Then there's the "SDK-style" project:
<Project Sdk="Microsoft.NET.Sdk"> That should always have NuGet package references stored in the project file. It will only have references for the packages which the project directly depends on; any dependencies of those packages will not be listed.
And if they created any .NET Core RC1 projects with VS2015, you may also have to deal with xproj + project.json projects, which don't use XML at all.
project.json and csproj comparison - .NET Core CLI | Microsoft Docs[^]
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Exactly. If everything was built using (pretty much) the same tools, then great, otherwise...there's always going to be some hole and the assessment is always going to remain incomplete. What impact that has on the answer it'll find for you depends on the question being asked.
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If you smoke pot you get high.
If you read books you become educated.
But if you do both do you become highly educated?
When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know.
But if you listen, you may learn something new.
--Dalai Lama
JaxCoder.com
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Give me some hours, I will test it 
It does not solve my Problem, but it answers my question
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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Some hours?
When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know.
But if you listen, you may learn something new.
--Dalai Lama
JaxCoder.com
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