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GeneralRe: Waterfall vs Agile and Project Estimates Pin
led mike25-Nov-08 11:55
led mike25-Nov-08 11:55 
GeneralRe: Waterfall vs Agile and Project Estimates Pin
Pete O'Hanlon25-Nov-08 12:02
mvePete O'Hanlon25-Nov-08 12:02 
GeneralRe: Waterfall vs Agile and Project Estimates Pin
emunews1-Dec-08 2:57
emunews1-Dec-08 2:57 
GeneralRe: Waterfall vs Agile and Project Estimates Pin
Pete O'Hanlon1-Dec-08 3:18
mvePete O'Hanlon1-Dec-08 3:18 
GeneralRe: Waterfall vs Agile and Project Estimates Pin
emunews1-Dec-08 3:22
emunews1-Dec-08 3:22 
GeneralRe: Waterfall vs Agile and Project Estimates Pin
Pete O'Hanlon1-Dec-08 3:34
mvePete O'Hanlon1-Dec-08 3:34 
AnswerRe: Waterfall vs Agile and Project Estimates Pin
PH-MAT1-Dec-08 19:25
PH-MAT1-Dec-08 19:25 
AnswerRe: Waterfall vs Agile and Project Estimates [modified] Pin
Member 36807854-Dec-08 10:50
Member 36807854-Dec-08 10:50 
I would give the same estimate for a given project regardless of methodology. When I give an estimate, I am essentially saying "I think this will take N days if done using reasonable development techniques." These do not have to be the exact development techniques used previously. Methodologies evolve, and what you're describing is the kind of incremental adjustment in methodology which is assumed to be going on all the time in any good shop.

Hopefully you will get faster over time, and the estimating model should always be updated as discrepancies are observed, but there's no immediate need that I perceive for you to adjust it right now.

Also, I do not think I have ever seen or heard anyone claiming to use the "waterfall method." It's considered a perjorative term these days, almost like saying "my coding style is spaghetti" or "our team's style is garage hacker." When you say "my estimating technique works for waterfall" you're basically saying it's an estimating model for bad techniques.

Finally, I think Agile is much better than waterfall, or (as proponents of Agile might say) it's much better than BDUF (Big Design Up Front). I don't think there's much value anymore to the style (call it waterfall, BDUF, or just mid-90s orthodoxy) in which the architect types spend weeks or months dicking around with object hierarchies, UML, etc. before coding ever starts. That time almost always ends up wasted, in my experience. In the absence of code, the architects don't have any real basis for their decisions.

Programming instructors are quite wise when they implore us to use natural language, pencil and paper, diagrams, etc., but I think many of us in the 90s went too far in this direction. Also, I think people attempted to over-formalize good technique. What emerged from this effort was a bunch of simplistic, canned methodologies that isolated "design" into its own step at the beginning of the process, performed by an elite cadre of non-programmers. Hopefully we have left, or are leaving, this era!

modified on Thursday, December 4, 2008 4:57 PM

QuestionCode portability - .NET/Unix Pin
vsyam19-Nov-08 6:44
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AnswerRe: Code portability - .NET/Unix Pin
Wendelius19-Nov-08 8:06
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GeneralRe: Code portability - .NET/Unix Pin
led mike19-Nov-08 8:17
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GeneralRe: Code portability - .NET/Unix Pin
Wendelius19-Nov-08 8:31
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QuestionRe: Code portability - .NET/Unix Pin
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GeneralRe: Code portability - .NET/Unix Pin
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AnswerRe: Code portability - .NET/Unix Pin
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Questionone questions about Builder Pattern Pin
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AnswerRe: one questions about Builder Pattern Pin
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QuestionWorkflow Services Pin
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QuestionLoading objects Pin
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led mike17-Nov-08 5:06
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led mike18-Nov-08 8:28
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CodingYoshi18-Nov-08 18:56
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Questiondesigning a good way enable/disable controls [modified] Pin
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